[Nanook]

I know this is going to be a bit vague because it is not really a question about 1 specific hand, although I could give many, but here goes anyway:

I was out at Canterbury yesterday and found myself at a really wild aggressive 6/12 limit table. 6/12 is my usual game and I recognize many of the regulars. Usually 6/12 is a bit more reserved than 8/16 and I find that it fits my style better. I have sat at this type of 6/12 table before, but it is rare. I find that when I do, I have a difficult time making money.

Just to clarify what I am talking about, I would estimate that 40% of the hands would be capped (5 bets) preflop with 4 or more players seeing the flop and sometimes as many as 7. Most of these hands would wind up having 25 or more big bets in there going to showdown with 3 or more players still in the hand. While I am not at all afraid to get in there when I have a decent starting hand I certainly am not going to keep throwing good money after bad once I see the flop and I have no part of it. I probably play too tight, but for the most part it keeps me out of trouble. I will throw out one typical hand that comes to mind. I wasn't even in this hand so it's not a rant at all. UTG makes it 2 bets 2 cold callers, a 3 better, 3 folds (including me), blinds calling 1 and 2 best respectively, original UTG raiser makes it 4 bets and the guy to his left who has done nothing to this point but call makes it 5 bets and then everyone else calls. 6 guys in the hand pf with 30 small bets in there! Flop comes AK8 rainbow. Without reliving all the gory details, suffice it to say. UTG bets and continues to bet and re-raise in every possible situation to reveal 83 offsuit after the turn and river come 33. Of course 2 of the other players have AK and there are a couple of other guys with pp etc. This was particularly gross and this is why it comes to mind. btw there were 34BB in there by the time it was all over and done with!

Anybody have any general good advice on how to defeat this type of game?

Nanook

[jojobinks]

sshe covers it, methinks.

don't cold-call. raise or fold (or limp with quality spec hands). if it comes two bets back to you fold your speculative hands. once you're in for one you can continue to call preflop as long as it's just one more bet.

then play poker on the flop. don't chase after sets after the flop. be aggressive with your big draws. don't go crazy with one pair hands in multiway pots. you'll lose many small pots and win one huge one every once in a while.

these games can be frustrating but are really juicy.

[Poboy]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

don't chase after sets after the flop.

(without odds to do so).
Don't play OOP too much. Notice the average amount of bets that go in preflop, and know that if you are limping, you'll probably be faced with more, and may be getting such good odds, you can't fold but don't really want to be in the hand. Build the h*** out of the pot when it's +EV to do so.

[TheMightyJim2k]

read SSHE. reread SSHE. then read it again.

it covers exactly how to beat these game from all angles. For the most part you play reasonable quality hands. Play very aggressively when you have an equity edge (ie top pair good kicker on the flop or better, or a huge draw in a multiway pot), and don't give up if you have the odds to chase.

also if you make it to the river in a huge pot and you have a decent hand don't fold for 1BB (or sometimes even 2), even if you think you are beat. When the pot is laying you close to +15-1 you only have to be good about 6 or 7% of the time to make money.

these games are without a doubt some of the most profitable to be in, but you have to adjust to the players in the game.

[dktoller]

Profitable for the casino for sure. And for the dealers (?)
Certainly high variability, but sounds beatable long-term. ON the other hand it might not be as much fun as playing regular poker.

[littlebu]

I know it's been said already more than once but...ready for my words of wisdom... read sshe. It covers situations like this in great detail.

[Big Mike]

Playing tight in a game like that will make you a winner. Loosening up your play in the proper manner, while making good decisions postflop, will allow you to crush a game like that. You know where I learned that? You got it, SSHE .

[Big Mike]

Originally Posted by dktoller

............ON the other hand it might not be as much fun as playing regular poker.

By "regular poker" do you mean playing against good players? Because I try to avoid that as much as possible. Because I like to win money.

[ipgyst]

"SSHE" says I, the copycat. It probably shouldn't have been my first poker book, but it was. Tons of good info. If I had the bankroll I would love to have been in that game. For me, the absolute best part of SSHE was the starting hand charts, which forced me to play tighter and more aggressive preflop, necessities for a neophyte.

Unfortunately, the charts in the book are unbearable, especially the ones that say "use this chart" and the chart they send you to says "use this other chart". So I made an openoffice-calc spreadsheet which contains the preflop strategy suggested in SSHE. I broke it down by early/middle/late/sb/bb and loose/tight games, just like SSHE. It's two pages. It is also intellectual property, so I definitely won't post it publicly. But if you PM me and can convince me that you own SSHE (you know, something stupid like "the 2nd word on the 6th line of page 223 is 'sanchez' "), I will email you a PDF of the file when I get home on the 24th or 25th.

And if you still have Microshaft Office and aren't using OpenOffice yet, you should really give OpenOffice a try. It's FREE, and it's BETTER.

[jmc]

The way I'd do it:
Play AA, KK, QQ, AKs and probably AQs -- play most other pairs for set value in limped multi-way pots. Play suited aces in late position for 1-bet. Throw just about everything else away, especially if it's raised and reraised to you.

Be prepared to lose or win a lot of money due to variance -- tilt control and bankroll management are essential.