Help with a hand....... (.50/1NL on Full Tilt)

joshuadalton · #1 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 08:06 AM

How would you have played this?

Full Tilt Poker Game #3816460880: Table WPTfan.com - $0.50/$1 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:06:44 ET - 2007/10/10
Seat 1: scottpay ($65.95)
Seat 2: Alpha_Kitty ($109.45)
Seat 3: PHV ($150.65)
Seat 4: cp10990 ($42.80)
Seat 5: ornette ($40.30)
Seat 6: bucksgal ($100.50)
Seat 7: joshuadalton ($95.25)
Seat 8: Mouseman23 ($101.95)
Seat 9: thongsniffer ($101.85)
PHV posts the small blind of $0.50
cp10990 posts the big blind of $1
The button is in seat #2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to joshuadalton [Jd Jc]
ornette raises to $3.50
bucksgal raises to $6
joshuadalton has 15 seconds left to act
joshuadalton calls $6
Mouseman23 folds
thongsniffer has 15 seconds left to act
thongsniffer folds
scottpay folds
Alpha_Kitty folds
PHV folds
cp10990 folds
ornette calls $2.50
*** FLOP *** [Jh Td Qh]
ornette has 15 seconds left to act
ornette bets $9
bucksgal has 15 seconds left to act
bucksgal calls $9
joshuadalton calls $9
*** TURN *** [Jh Td Qh] [8d]
ornette has 15 seconds left to act
ornette bets $25.30, and is all in
bucksgal has 15 seconds left to act
bucksgal folds
joshuadalton ???????????????

ACE'S FULL · #2 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 08:13 AM

I guess I would have to ask you a few questions before I could comment...

Table Image (loose tight)
Raiser & Reraiser (LAG, TAG)
Your image (LAG, TAG)

Edit: What I would do without having the above questions answered I would fold to the second raise... Seeing how you didn't I would be interested to find out some more info on the players and table image... As well as how you are playing.

JoseRijo · #3 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 08:19 AM

Reads would be helpful for pre-flop action, but I'd probably call.

I would definitely raise the flop. And I don't see any point in discussing the turn.

joshuadalton · #4 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 08:23 AM

First raiser was playing ATC. Reraiser had just sat down, so I had no read and was confused by the raise to 6 from 3.50.
I sat down with $80, and dipped to about $70 before making a hand and being at $95.

I agree that the first questionable play is making the preflop call, but something was telling me that I was against garbage(raiser) and maybe AK(reraiser).

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACE'S FULL

I guess I would have to ask you a few questions before I could comment...

Table Image (loose tight)
Raiser & Reraiser (LAG, TAG)
Your image (LAG, TAG)

Edit: What I would do without having the above questions answered I would fold to the second raise... Seeing how you didn't I would be interested to find out some more info on the players and table image... As well as how you are playing.

200 Motels · #5 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 08:35 AM

ornette could easily have AK.

I would have jammed the flop because now 99 has you beat along with AK.

This depends on your read of the player. I say, since they smooth called the reraise preflop they don't have AA or KK.

TT is a possibility but not likely.

AQ and is a possibility.

KQ is not likely as a short stack player would prolly limp in early with this.

99 is a possibility and so is QQ.

Say 50% they have AK, 30% they have 99 or QQ and 20% they have AQ.

There's a 20% chance you have the best hand.

There's $75 in the pot and it costs you $25 to call. Getting 3:1.

There's you're bout 4:1 to fill up or make quads. (10 outs) Plus a chance you have the best hand.

I call.

200 Motels · #6 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshuadalton

I agree that the first questionable play is making the preflop call, but something was telling me that I was against garbage(raiser) and maybe AK(reraiser).

I call there preflop for set value, if you hit, your prolly going to felt an over pair, tptk or two pair. Big implied odds only cuz the minraiser has a full stack.

Only questionable play was not shoving on the flop. IMO.

Poboy · #7 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 09:04 AM

I'd make it $18 preflop. You'll pick up the pot or isolate the moron min re-raiser, and make the flop much easier to play. Turn wouldn't matter because if you even get there, you'll be all-in.

As played, why call the flop bet? The pot is $36 to you. Ornette has barely half a pot behind. Bucksgal's call looks like a draw. Raise it here if you don't re-pop preflop.

ACE'S FULL · #8 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 09:05 AM

Pre-flop there is $19 in the pot. The flop is huge for someone with AK (you put someone on this hand) UTG leads out again with a half-pot bet... We call, I would agree at a minimum we have to raise here. That way if its repoped we can fold. Or if you like the shove play then go with that.
For me I would make a pot sized bet here to see where I am. I feel there is no reason to commit your whole stack if you are drawing dead... If its reraised then I fold.
The turn is another scary card... I would have to say at this point you are beat. 200 motels called it 99 and with the all-in I would say he hit the str8... Not much to do but fold and wait for a better spot. Or call and hope the board pairs and you fill up...

I would lean with the fold myself... Interested to see how this played out.

ACE'S FULL · #9 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poboy

I'd make it $18 preflop. You'll pick up the pot or isolate the moron min re-raiser, and make the flop much easier to play. Turn wouldn't matter because if you even get there, you'll be all-in.

This is an interesting play... One that I think would work but for me to actual do this in this spot would be difficult. I am to passive.

I am going to have to try this next time this type of situation comes up...

guinness · #10 (**permalink**) 10-11-2007, 09:40 AM

Sounds like you were up against AK?

Its a bit of a tight spot but after the flop I would have first honed in on the stacks I'm up against. A final bet of 24x the BB wouldn't have moved me away from my set...especially at the .50\$1 table on FTP where you'll see people doing this with AA or KK in this spot. I wouldn't rule out KK for the opponent, but like everyone has stated you need to read your gut for what you've seen from this player leading up to this situation. I don't think anyone can blame you for folding or calling so you get sympathy votes.

If you two were table leaders and he bet out 200x the BB on the turn, I'd have to rethink it. I do tend to protect accumulated stacks if I have the 4th Nuts but I likely would have gambled for 24x BB.

I agree with Rios that this is a flop discussion. You got zero information before and after the flop so you've put yourself in a position to know less on the turn. Not only that, but your opponent does NOT put you on a set given how you've played this hand so therefore they are willing to put them in with less than AK I would imagine.....but...was AK the cards held?