[hachkc]

Yea, I know I would have lost regardless but in general what do you think of the play?

Icashmeout is a winning player over 200 hands and is a 27/12.
adipaulie is a losing player over 70 hands and is a 38/16.

FullTiltPoker Game #3709485019: Table Ann - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:53:22 ET - 2007/09/29
Seat 1: adipaulie ($40.05)
Seat 2: billfugate ($49.50), is sitting out
Seat 3: jgame99 ($24.65)
Seat 4: Orpheus81 ($8.30)
Seat 5: Bust-ME-Baby ($24.75)
Seat 6: itsagood1 ($16.15), is sitting out
Seat 7: icashmeout ($32.20)
Seat 8: hachkc ($25.70)
Seat 9: newman905 ($25.30)
Bust-ME-Baby posts the small blind of $0.10
itsagood1 stands up
icashmeout posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hachkc [Kc Kd]
hachkc calls $0.25
jpwingman sits down
jpwingman adds $25
newman905 folds
adipaulie calls $0.25
jgame99 folds
Orpheus81 folds
Bust-ME-Baby folds
icashmeout raises to $1.10
hachkc calls $0.85
adipaulie calls $0.85
*** FLOP *** [Jd Qh 6s]
icashmeout bets $2
hachkc calls $2
adipaulie raises to $4
icashmeout has 15 seconds left to act
icashmeout raises to $11
hachkc folds
adipaulie calls $7
*** TURN *** [Jd Qh 6s] [4c]
icashmeout bets $20.10, and is all in
adipaulie calls $20.10
icashmeout shows [Ah Ac]
adipaulie shows [Qc Kh]
*** RIVER *** [Jd Qh 6s 4c] [9d]
icashmeout shows a pair of Aces
adipaulie shows a pair of Queens
icashmeout wins the pot ($64.60) with a pair of Aces
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $67.60 | Rake $3
Board: [Jd Qh 6s 4c 9d]
Seat 1: adipaulie showed [Qc Kh] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 2: billfugate is sitting out
Seat 3: jgame99 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Orpheus81 (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Bust-ME-Baby (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: itsagood1 is sitting out
Seat 7: icashmeout (big blind) showed [Ah Ac] and won ($64.60) with a pair of Aces
Seat 8: hachkc folded on the Flop
Seat 9: newman905 didn't bet (folded)

[Irish Se7en]

I now know the answer but I won't comment yet. You might want to get rid of the final outcome.

FullTiltPoker Game #3709485019: Table Ann - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:53:22 ET - 2007/09/29
Seat 1: adipaulie ($40.05)
Seat 2: billfugate ($49.50), is sitting out
Seat 3: jgame99 ($24.65)
Seat 4: Orpheus81 ($8.30)
Seat 5: Bust-ME-Baby ($24.75)
Seat 6: itsagood1 ($16.15), is sitting out
Seat 7: icashmeout ($32.20)
Seat 8: hachkc ($25.70)
Seat 9: newman905 ($25.30)
Bust-ME-Baby posts the small blind of $0.10
itsagood1 stands up
icashmeout posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #4
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hachkc [Kc Kd]
hachkc calls $0.25
jpwingman sits down
jpwingman adds $25
newman905 folds
adipaulie calls $0.25
jgame99 folds
Orpheus81 folds
Bust-ME-Baby folds
icashmeout raises to $1.10
hachkc calls $0.85
adipaulie calls $0.85
*** FLOP *** [Jd Qh 6s]
icashmeout bets $2
hachkc calls $2
adipaulie raises to $4
icashmeout has 15 seconds left to act
icashmeout raises to $11


That's where I would leave it, so you can get a true opinion and one that isn't influenced by the final outcome. JMO

[jojobinks]

nice fold. me...i'd never pass on re-raising preflop once i induced a raise.

[hachkc]

I wasn't worried about the results aspect, more about the preflop play and flop.

Typically I'm looking to reraise here and I probably should have. If just about anyone but the blinds raise, I probably reraise. When Icash raised, I was a bit concerned as he generally a pretty decent player. Biggest reason I didn't pop it back (and a bad reason at that) was because I had been burned with KK/QQ a couple times already today by running into a better PP. In hindsight, I probably should have reraised preflop if I was concerned about the AA possibility enough to bring adi along also; Icash should have come over the top then. Probably FPS here though. At worst, I should have reraised the flop. Adie probably calls or raises and then icash pops it again. At this point I probably need to fold figuring he has AA or QQ/JJ.

[Clipper]

hachkc, got to raise it when action gets back to you. A sizable raise, not a suck-raise of 2 1/2 time previous amount. Raise it to at least 3-4x the previous total.

I would prefer to raise before flop unless the stats showed the table was ultra tight or something.

[FL70]

OK, so you limped preflop, but how do you not re-raise? The point of limping early with AA or KK is to re-raise - especially when one of them has position on you.

Even so, how do you not raise the flop? The board comes all unders and the preflop raise bets out. You call?

Just seems to me you're going to get too far without defining your opponent's hand.

BTW - adipaulie: keep track of this guy. Anyone who can get that married to top pair is a cash cow waiting to be milked.

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by FL70

OK, so you limped preflop, but how do you not re-raise? The point of limping early with AA or KK is to re-raise - especially when one of them has position on you.

Spidey-sense? Don't have good answer other than a bad feeling from being burned earlier and bad feeling about his BB raise.

Even so, how do you not raise the flop? The board comes all unders and the preflop raise bets out. You call?

This ones easy. icash is a decent player and probably isn't raising from the bb on a steal which means he has a hand. My range on him is here is AA/KK/QQ/JJ/TT and an outside chance of AK though I'd expect a bigger raise here. Three of those hands I'm behind, 1 I'm tied and 2 I'm ahead. Also, adie will jump on what he sees as a weak bet (less than pot) so I play it cautious here. Once the raise and reraise are in, I'm out.

[Poboy]

The preflop non raise is pretty bad because you don't close the action.[EDIT: you also have lousy relative position throughout the hand.] I'm not a big fan of slowplaying when it's not HU either.

Originally Posted by hachkc

This ones easy. icash is a decent player and probably isn't raising from the bb on a steal which means he has a hand. My range on him is here is AA/KK/QQ/JJ/TT and an outside chance of AK though I'd expect a bigger raise here. Three of those hands I'm behind, 1 I'm tied and 2 I'm ahead. Also, adie will jump on what he sees as a weak bet (less than pot) so I play it cautious here. Once the raise and reraise are in, I'm out.

The flop lead could mean AQ or KQ or even TT as well as the hands that beat you.

If adie will jump on a weak bet, then the cautious play would be to re-raise. The call is asking for the re-raise, which you should only do if you want it.
I puke and fold, but would definitely come back over the top if the flop were more coordinated.

[TheMightyJim2k]

3 things:

1) your estimation of their play should have nothing to do with whether or not they are winning or losing. unless you have a sample of 10k plus hands on them you likely don't have a very solid idea on their winrate. It really shouldn't even factor into your decision. Use their other stats to determine the hand ranges and how you expect them to play the hand.

2) please please please reraise preflop. Sure you would have run into AA this time, but his range is much worse, you have a chance to get your SPR where you want it, and you have the best hand a huge portion of the time.

3) flop fold is fine. That is a fairly dangerous flop for you, and it isn't that crazy to think that you are beat and maybe drawing thin. That being said if you had put some more money in before folding I don't think it would have been a mistake, but I think the fold is ok.

(also I know you already know this kyle, but don't include results so that it doesn't taint our opinions).

[Clipper]

hackkc, MJ had a good point on needed a lot of hands to determine he villan was winning player. I will never forget playing in a $15-30 limit game with a guy who, over 800 hands my records indicated he was a loser, a fairly big loser. It turned out he was basically an internet legend in limit on Party, steadily making 1 to 1.5 BB/hr per table (yes, per table) over 7-8 tables. Another player, an online pro, shared his stats with me offsite, making me aware of what a misread I had on the guy.

You need to push the big pairs harder (similar to the AA vs BB hand). You can lose very big pots with them if you don't. Limp and raise is ok, but do it occassionally and really pop it up if pot has been raised and you hold QQ or KK.