Heads up...gotta show both cards...

daveyboy · #1 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 06:46 AM

What would you do?

This is something that happened last night in a $20 NL cash game at a local casino. Me and another player was heads-up after the river. The pot was a small amount of approximately $12-15. After the river, the board read 2-2-6-3-4, after the betting ended (betting pattern does not matter in this scenario), I held my cards in my hand and showed him and everyone else including the dealer my pocket 8's, and the other player quickly showed me and everyone else including the dealer ONE card which was a 2 to complete a set of 2's. I immediately flipped both cards face down and tossed them in the muck and said "good hand". He immediately put his 2 face down and tossed both cards in the muck. The dealer then said to me, "if you laid your hand down on the table face up, I would have given you the pot since the other player only showed one card and mucked his hand. After we both said "what?" I told the other player that I would have gave him the pot no matter what because I clearly could not beat his set of 2's.

My question to you is...If you were in the same scenario and you placed the pocket 8's face up on the table and dealer ruled that you won the pot of $15 because the other player did not show both cards, would you take the money or give it to other player that clearly showed the 2?

tomb1 · #2 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 08:29 AM

The other guy was wrong. I agree with the rule that you must show both cards to win a pot at a showdown. But by mucking your cards first you made your hand dead and he took the pot. OK, justice served I guess.

So for your question -- if the dealer had awarded you the pot correctly then no way in hell do I give it to the other guy. I would just sit there and look confused while the dealer did the dirty work. I'd never try to overrule the dealer's decision.

The other guy needs a lesson in rules and losing a pot is a good way to learn. If he folded pre-flop could he bring his cards out afterwards and say "look I made a set?" A fold/muck before the pot is shipped is a fold, period.

Big Mike · #3 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 08:37 AM

I agree, and would NOT give him the pot.
I find it really annoying when people show only one card. It takes two cards to win, and people will only learn if it hurts.

Diamond_Don · #4 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 08:46 AM

I'm surprised that nobody asked to show his other card before he mucked them. I think that it was a little harsh not to give him the pot. But the rule is you must show both cards to win the pot.

TBonesPoker · #5 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 08:50 AM

You must show both cards to win. If not, in my world, tough noogies! I would have raked the pot.

Quads · #6 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 02:44 PM

The Dealer is wrong in this case.

Yes, both cards need to be shown to win any part of the pot.
The technicality here is that you hand is in the muck.

When the Dealer sees the other player flash one card, she / he *still* can't send that player the pot if your hand wasn't mucked. She / He (Dealer) should have asked to see both cards in order to push the pot. But, he flashed his 2, you released your hand, which left his hand the only live hand, she / he (dealer) started pushing the pot, and he threw his cards in.

Floor should have been called if you wanted to make an issue out of the technicality of it.

Otherwise, live and learn. Don't release your hand until you see both cards of the winning hand.

mattjrocks · #7 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 03:15 PM

I would've taken the pot. I have people in my home game that used to show only one card and it annoyed the hell out of me.

daveyboy · #8 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 04:14 PM

If the dealer was going to enforce the rule, he should at least asked the player to expose but cards to get the pot instead of making a comment after the fact. That is the problem with Hawaiian Gardens, is that they are very bad in the communication department. I have seen time and time again dealers getting into arguments with players instead of just calling the pit boss to figure out the problem if escalates too far. In Vegas, if a problem can't get resolved in a quick and calm manner, the pit boss in called immediately.

jojobinks · #9 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 04:14 PM

many of you have misunderstood.

davey doesn't get this pot, whether he calls the floor or not, b/c he mucked first. essentially he mucked, and then the other guy mucked. b/c the other guy was the last one with the hand, he gets the pot.

the hypothetical is IF:

davey shows down his 8s
other guy shows just the 2 and then mucks his hand.
THEN: davey would be awarded the pot, b/c other guy didn't show down a full hand.

i think we pretty unanamously agree that that would be appropriate. the lesson here, imo, is not that you have to show 2 cards, but that you shouldn't muck your hand until the pot is pushed to you. this is including if everyone else folds.

daveyboy · #10 (**permalink**) 07-28-2007, 04:24 PM

Yes, I did not get the pot nor would I have made a big stink even IF I had laid my cards on the table face up and the pot was still awarded to the other player who only showed 1 card.

Yes, within the rules, I could have gotten the pot is I laid my 8's on the table and he mucked his cards, but I could not beat his one face up card (2). Would I have felt totally comfortable if the dealer did award me the pot in that situation...I don't know?

If it was a tournament or the stakes were much higher, it would be totally different situation. I would have smiled and said "thank you very much".