[_GUN_]

Hand from the $1k re-buy WSOP NLHE event.

Amir Vahedi raises to 46k (8k/16k blinds), Michael Gracz calls from the small blind and the flop is

(don't recall exact seat, raise was early/middle position, certainly before the cut-off seat)

Michael Gracz holds for top pair, top kicker and the nut flush draw. Seemingly holding a lock on the hand, he checks to Amir, who bets 60k at approx 126k. Michael Gracz quickly check-raises to 180k (3x the initial bet). Michael Gracz then starts talking and Amir releases his hand.

Rate the check-raise.

[jojobinks]

he wants to get it all in now or fold amir out. a turn brick significantly weakens his hand. he made the right play, but he really did give up his hand by talking.

[ipgyst]

Without more information, I like the play, but hate the talking.

Mike Matusow was commenting about playing Phil Ivey one time, and he said it wasn't that tough because every time he checked to Phil, Phil bet. If Amir was betting all the time, then checking to get his money into the pot while Gracz had AQs was good poker. Gracz gave Amir the ability to make the wrong decision, which he did.

Raising is interesting, because Gracz knos that Amir is thinking "OK so he checked, I bet, he raised. He knows that if he checks then I will bet because that is how I'm playing, so he must have a good hand to check-raise. But he knows that I know that, so he might be check-raise bluffing or semi-bluffing to get me to fold. etc..." A check-call is suspicious and the only way Gracz is getting more of Amir's money into the pot after a check-call is if Amir hits trips or a straight or something else nasty.

[Poboy]

If he also check raises nothing sometimes, it's fine.

[Quads]

I've been meaning to start a thread on this EXACT hand, because it is still running around in my head.

I simply don't understand Gracz and his play. It makes no sense to me.
TPNK with NFD and you check raise your customer out of the pot and then, on top of that, start shooting your mouth off?

I think he could have extracted many more chips out of Vahedi.

Still makes no sense to me.

There was another hand I saw (no between the two of them, but two other cats in a diff. event) where dude a flops a set of aces in a totally uncoordinated board, and RR's dude b out of the pot who opens it for him on the flop. WTF are you doing? Nothing on the board hurts you, no turn card can come to hurt you, and blow your customer out of the pot. Way to maximize your dollar.

:baffled:

[TheMightyJim2k]

if you check call Vahedi shuts down on the turn. If you lead out, he folds the flop. Just because we saw him blow up in a couple of hands at the ME in 2003 doesn't mean that he goes psycho and bluffs every hand.

Gracz is only making money on this hand if Vahedi also has a big hand in which case they are getting it in on the flop. If just c/c he is giving up free cards that could easily take the lead against his TPTK, and if he hits the flush he is unlikely to get paid off since the flush draw is the obvious holding to put someone who check calls the flop on.

A *LOT* of players are c/r'ing the flop with a flush draw here, and if vahedi has a decent pair he might reshove if he puts Gracz on the draw. That is what Gracz is most hoping for.

The talking was bad, but other than that I don't think you can fault him for his play. In fact I think you need to c/r this flop most of the time, and mix in the occasional c/c. Donking (lead betting into a pf raiser) here is pretty bad.

[Poboy]

I didn't see it, but the check raise can mean a lot of things. His talking probably was intended to elicit a bluff from Vahedi.

You can't count on a bet again on the turn from Vahedi if any , J, T, 9, A, K, Q, 8, or 4 come on the turn. That's a lot of cards. What do you do then, donk the turn?

No, if you check raise MP, a FD, air, a set, TPanyK then it's a lot harder for Vahedi to fold QJ, KK type hands.

[yeltzen]

I don't really think he was making any more money on this hand no matter what he did. Check-raising is probably his best move, since Vahedi might read it as a play. The ESPN broadcast isn't exactly the best way to see the hands that led up to this one, so we don't really know the history and whether or not this move made any sense. Based on the way Vahedi plays, though, it was probably a good move... until he started talking.

[FL70]

Originally Posted by TheMightyJim2k

if you check call Vahedi shuts down on the turn. If you lead out, he folds the flop. Just because we saw him blow up in a couple of hands at the ME in 2003 doesn't mean that he goes psycho and bluffs every hand.

Gracz is only making money on this hand if Vahedi also has a big hand in which case they are getting it in on the flop. If just c/c he is giving up free cards that could easily take the lead against his TPTK, and if he hits the flush he is unlikely to get paid off since the flush draw is the obvious holding to put someone who check calls the flop on.

Yeah, all that stuff.

[beekeeper]

Check-Call is ok with me but kind of standard play. Gracz is aggressive and a check-call might look as strong as his hand is to Vahedi, but a check raise could look like a steal. He should have kept quiet.