[whataboutj]

I know it has been discussed before but I am curious to hear some info on the ways you would play small PP's in a cash game Vs. a tourney or SnG (single or MTT). For what I am asking about I am refering to small PP being 2-2 thru 6-6. Maybe I am wrong but I look at 7-7 thru 9-9 or 10-10 as middle PP. If I am wrong in my thinking feel free to correct me.

I have been struggling with these small pocket pairs lately. It seems that in tourney/SnG play a raise of 3-4x BB does not run off enough people and I end up with flops that are all over cards or worse. Rarely do I hit a 3rd card to make a set. I end up making a C-bet or folding to a bet depending on position. If I am in the BB and it checking is an option & I do I almost always end up not hitting anything on the flop. I know poistion will make a difference in how to play them too. I feel like if I play them better pre-flop I can do better overall.

So how do you play them

Cash game position:
early
middle
late

MTT SnG/Tourney position:
early
middle
late

Single table SnG position:
early
middle
late


Also - I am not sure if this makes a huge difference but I tend to play in the $6+$.50 SnG's 9 & 18 person games and the $.05/$.10 or $.10/$.25 cash games. For MTT SnG's I play in some of the $3 + $.45 45 person ones too

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by whataboutj

Cash game position:

I play them almost all the time and usually into a reasonable raise especially multiway unless I'm up against some short stacks. As for raising PF with them, in EP I probably raise with them maybe 20% of the time. In MP & LP, I'll raise more often depending on the number of limpers in front. Unless short handed, I'll never reraise with them PF. IMO, low PP are basically useless unless you flop a set or some sort of OESD. They are easy to play and easy to get away from.

MTT SnG/Tourney position:
early
middle
late

Single table SnG position:
early
middle
late

As for tournies, they are much weaker IMO and usually only play them if the stacks are deep enough to justify chasing for something. As a short stack or when the table is short handed, I play them much more aggressive. I rarely will raise them from EP and MP unless the stacks are deep enough. In LP, I'll open raise with them if its folded to me. I may occassionally raise with them if a few limpers get in 1st but not often.

[jojobinks]

why in the world would you want to thin the field with a small pocket pair? there is no flop that's good for except flopping sets. and when you flop a set, you want to have everyone in the pot, right?

so that's the answer. you can limp in in cash games if you're deep or if the the pot is unlikely to be raised. you can raise with them in cash games if you're deep enough to call a raise for <10% of your stack.

in a tournament, the same holds true if you're deep. if you're not deep, then you should pass them in ep and try your best to get in for one bet with them in later position. it's generally a bad idea to limp and then call for a raise, so you want to either 1) be able to call if someone raises or 2) not get involved in the first place if that's likely. IMO, it's boneheaded to limp in and then call a raise from a good or tight player oop with such a weak hand if you're not >50bb deep.

unless you're desperate for chips or deep as hell, there's not much reason to jack up the pot early with these hands.

[whataboutj]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

why in the world would you want to thin the field with a small pocket pair? there is no flop that's good for except flopping sets. and when you flop a set, you want to have everyone in the pot, right?

I guess that is one thing I never thought deep enough about - hence the thread. It makes sense to me. I appreciate it

[_GUN_]

22-99 I consider small pairs, TT/JJ/QQ are raising hands, but often terrible candidates for a reraise vs bad competition. You will often reraise with these hands and then a guy who can't fold A8o spikes an ace on you..so it's very rarely correct to put in a third raise and be all-in with one of these hands.

if you're 9-handed and no one has entered the pot, if you're in seat 7, 8, or 9, then you should look at an opening raise as a steal or the foundation of a bluff more than anything.

if you have a tight reputation and raise with 55 in the cut-off seat and then the flop comes A-rag-rag, you can generally buy the pot there versus a sole blind. your raise with 55 could be made with 4-9 offsuit, just as well, though.

JoJo's right about thinning the field, mathmatically speaking, you only hit a set 1 in 8 times you are dealt them, I believe. Why drive out people who can't fold top or middle pair after the flop? You want to hit a set in a multiway flop, not a heads-up pot. You will very rarely get a dream flop of AJ6 with 66 vs AK, so there's more reason to see a cheap flop with a baby pair in multiway action, than heads-up play. With a larger field, the odds increase that someone else hits the flop hard.

[luckychick]

I raise small PP very rarely. Pretty much only in a tourney, according to very specific stacks.

Cash games, and early in MTT and STT are the same. PP are for set value - getting value from hands like AK, AQ, and higher pairs. This means get in cheap, and get out when you missed. At aggressive tables (lots of raises pf) I fold small pp pre-flop. Against more passive tables I will limp even in early position. I will call raises with small pp if we are deep stacked, and I am in lp or closing the action. If folded to me in the CO or on the button, I will often put in a steal/value raise against the remaining players, but I have to be confident in my ability to either get heads up and/or out play the remaining players. A lot of people will min-raise small pp with very deep stacks in an effort to build pots when you do hit a set. I'm not sure I have played in many situations where I feel this is necessary. An exception is 6-max limit cash games where I will play small pp very aggressively pf--but willing to let go postflop if it is clear I am beat.

Small (and even middle) pp I will fold in tournies in early and mid position when my stack in in the crappy 12-17x bb mode (not quite pushing mode, but at a point where you can easily get pot committed, and the chips lost in limping end up costing you when you need them to double when you do hit). For the same reason, I will even often fold them in LP, unless there is some ridiculous reason (5 limpers or something) to try and call. I used to get sucked along with these sometimes, and waste money. Get rid of 'em.

If I am in push/fold mode in a tourney, I will often (although not always) open push small pp in mid to late position. I have to be on the desperate end of the push/fold mode to push them in early position. The other times I will raise a pp in a tourney is if I have a ton of chips and it is folded to me in lp. If the blinds have stack sizes where I am willing to flip with them, then I will raise all-in such that they have to decide whether to call or not.

I think this is pretty similar to what was already said above, just adding to the consensus, I guess.

[shanghai_sparky]

I dump them UTG or UTG+1.
If I can get in cheap in a late position then I will play.
From the blinds, I will call a small raise, otherwise dump them.

[_GUN_]

Originally Posted by shanghai_sparky

I dump them UTG or UTG+1.
If I can get in cheap in a late position then I will play.
From the blinds, I will call a small raise, otherwise dump them.

Sparky brought up a good point, if I'm 6-handed with 22/33 UTG I dump them generally. If it's 8-handed, I don't even pause to consider calling. 22/33/44 to me is like being dealt unprinted paper. Limps invite steals and they only improve to sets 1 in 8 times, so you don't have to even limp with them in very early position. I've seen several pros dump 55 utg in 8-handed/9-handed play, too.

[Poboy]

I play 6max cash games, and with a small pair I'll either raise it first in, limp along with limpers ahead, and/or call a raise set mining. I rarely fold them.

I don't play tourneys much, but I fold most of them when I do play a tourney.

[poislb]

Small pockets seem to run into a "DONK" fest at my home game...I usually will stay in if I can afford to (call, check, check-raise), unless I cant catch a runner after the flop, no need to stay in with low pair when nothing comes out, to much of a risk playing the board with Q A 9, ya cant bluff 3 aces out with no chance of a straight...