[scottwire]

Your opponent is themightyjim who is a solid player. I am pretty sure he the other 2 aces. About 14 players left, avg stack is around 2000. What's your play?

I'll post what ran through my head later.

PokerStars Game #10505659604: Tournament #51862077, $5.00+$0.50 Omaha Pot Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2007/06/18 - 22:18:06 (ET)
Table '51862077 3' 9-max Seat #2 is the button

spdstr76 - t1010
Seitz333 Button - t241
themightyjim - t2325
thejojobinks - t6864
Solberg1905 - t2380
scottwire - t3835
Tosh - t1535

PREFLOP Level IV (50/100)
scottwire is UTG+1 with A A 8 3
1 fold, scottwire raises t250 to t350, 3 folds, themightyjim raises t800 to t1150, 1 fold...

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by scottwire

Your opponent is themightyjim who is a solid player. I am pretty sure he the other 2 aces. About 14 players left, avg stack is around 2000. What's your play?

I'll post what ran through my head later.

PokerStars Game #10505659604: Tournament #51862077, $5.00+$0.50 Omaha Pot Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2007/06/18 - 22:18:06 (ET)
Table '51862077 3' 9-max Seat #2 is the button

spdstr76 - t1010
Seitz333 Button - t241
themightyjim - t2325
thejojobinks - t6864
Solberg1905 - t2380
scottwire - t3835
Tosh - t1535

PREFLOP Level IV (50/100)
scottwire is UTG+1 with A A 8 3
1 fold, scottwire raises t250 to t350, 3 folds, themightyjim raises t800 to t1150, 1 fold...

I believe the odds say call I don't like it. Jim's probably not folding this hand for anything and if he has AAxx he's probably slightly ahead of you. The big question is what sort of flop do you want to see in order to push and can you check/fold on an ugly flop (monochrome or 2 of his suit). I probably call here but don't like it. If the flop is ugly and you fold, you still have 2700+ to toss around.

If he has AAJTds or AAKKds, you still are at worst 3:2 against when the pots laying you 2:1.

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2786770
cards             win   %win    lose  %lose     tie   %tie     EV
3s Ac  Ah  8h   97108  19.42  165325  33.06  237567  47.51  0.432
As Ts  Ad  Jd  165325  33.06   97108  19.42  237567  47.51  0.568

cards             win   %win    lose  %lose     tie   %tie     EV
3s Ac  Ah  8h   89779  17.96  179193  35.84  231028  46.21  0.411
As Ks  Ad  Kd  179193  35.84   89779  17.96  231028  46.21  0.589

[TheMightyJim2k]

glad you put up this hand Scott. I'll keep my thoughts (and hand to myself for now). I would like to see what everyone else thinks first.

BTW I realized something last night....tourney poker is tourney poker. I don't really know very much about PLO, but when the blinds go up and the stacks get smaller the same underlying strategies exist as a NL tourney. Pick a decent hand, find a spot to steal the blinds or put pressure, and make a move. It is very interesting how the element of increasing blinds and small stacks becomes the dominant strategic element, and the betting structure or game you are playing becomes less important. rambling off....

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by TheMightyJim2k

glad you put up this hand Scott. I'll keep my thoughts (and hand to myself for now). I would like to see what everyone else thinks first.

BTW I realized something last night....tourney poker is tourney poker. I don't really know very much about PLO, but when the blinds go up and the stacks get smaller the same underlying strategies exist as a NL tourney. Pick a decent hand, find a spot to steal the blinds or put pressure, and make a move. It is very interesting how the element of increasing blinds and small stacks becomes the dominant strategic element, and the betting structure or game you are playing becomes less important. rambling off....

i think that's for sure. i tend to do well on monday in big bet games and horrible in limit games. the strategies are basically the same, and that's kind of a beautiful thing, isn't it?

[w16227]

very tough hand - if there was another player involved I would actually fold here because of your other two cards. Each only gives you a one way draw (flush or wheel st8 ).

You had plenty of chips, but I do not really know if you want to shove here or call/re-evaluate the flop. You do have position, which is a good thing and might lean towards the call. Most of the CT players will check the flop with AA and no redraws (not all that bad of a strat depending on the board), so you may get a chance to pick up the pot on the flop. On the other hand, calling also gives him the chance to blow you off of the hand with a TJ9 type of flop.

Without more omaha play against TMJ, I would pust 50% of the time and call 50% of the time. Postflop - you want a ragged board (259) or some redraw fit to your hand to play strong.

Originally Posted by scottwire

Your opponent is themightyjim who is a solid player. I am pretty sure he the other 2 aces. About 14 players left, avg stack is around 2000. What's your play?

I'll post what ran through my head later.

PokerStars Game #10505659604: Tournament #51862077, $5.00+$0.50 Omaha Pot Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2007/06/18 - 22:18:06 (ET)
Table '51862077 3' 9-max Seat #2 is the button

spdstr76 - t1010
Seitz333 Button - t241
themightyjim - t2325
thejojobinks - t6864
Solberg1905 - t2380
scottwire - t3835
Tosh - t1535

PREFLOP Level IV (50/100)
scottwire is UTG+1 with A A 8 3
1 fold, scottwire raises t250 to t350, 3 folds, themightyjim raises t800 to t1150, 1 fold...

[hachkc]

Any update?

[jojobinks]

b/c it's no big secret...he pushed, jim showed aces with two biggish cards, and scott made a (small) suckout. i think i calculated it at about 51-49

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

b/c it's no big secret...he pushed, jim showed aces with two biggish cards, and scott made a (small) suckout. i think i calculated it at about 51-49

It was a secret to me but nice to know the result.

[scottwire]

Sorry guys, I worked late and then went to the movies. Its been a long day.

scottwire: raises 2400 to 3550
themightyjim: calls 1175 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [3h 7h 7c]
*** TURN *** [3h 7h 7c] [6d]
*** RIVER *** [3h 7h 7c 6d] [3d]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
themightyjim: shows [Jc Tc Ac As] (two pair, Aces and Sevens)
scottwire: shows [8h 3s Ah Ad] (three of a kind, Threes)
scottwire collected 4750 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4750 | Rake 0
Board [3h 7h 7c 6d 3d]
Seat 1: spdstr76 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Seitz333 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: themightyjim (small blind) showed [Jc Tc Ac As] and lost with two pair, Aces and Sevens
Seat 5: thejojobinks (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Solberg1905 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: scottwire showed [8h 3s Ah Ad] and won (4750) with three of a kind, Threes
Seat 8: Tosh folded before Flop (didn't bet)

My thought process:

1) I'm pretty sure Jim has the other aces. Is it worth putting him in on what most likely will be a split pot? His other two cards are probably more coordinated than mine.

I unfortunately have not played Omaha often and don't really know equities so I thought this would be a split much more often than it was. As shown in Hach's calculations, because of all the combinations, we'll only push about 50% of the time.

2) Are the extra chips worth taking the risk? If I lose I still have plenty of chips to have a chance to build back up. Winning Jim's chips would put near the lead with Jojo and a better chance to win the tourney. Is the risk worth the reward? I really wasn't sure but I wasn't risking my tournament life so I decided to go for it.

3) Calling just seemed silly because Jim had half his stack in. A stop and go really didn't cross my mind.

 http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2788551
pokenum  -mc 500000  -o jc tc ac as  - 8h 3s ah ad 
Omaha Hi: 500000 sampled boards
cards             win   %win    lose  %lose     tie   %tie     EV
As Ac  Jc  Tc  133321  26.66  101845  20.37  264834  52.97  0.531
3s Ad  Ah  8h  101845  20.37  133321  26.66  264834  52.97  0.469

I almost folded to keep my stack intact so I'm glad that no one has opted to fold to the raise yet

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by scottwire

3) Calling just seemed silly because Jim had half his stack in. A stop and go really didn't cross my mind.

Why? We are basically talking about calling with 800 or pushing with 1975.

If you believe you are behind, why put all the chips in preflop? Once the flop hits, the pot will be laying you almost 3:1 if you push/call as I assume Jim's not getting away from this hand at this point. Calling and seeing the flop at least lets you make a better informed decision before putting another 1175 chips in. I suppose there is a chance you are ahead if jim's basically pushing AAXXr or something like KKQJds which easily flips you into the lead here even if only slightly.

I guess the question is can or should you check/fold an ugly flop (all black) if you simply call? I'm not the may guy here but I'm curious if there is a justification here.

This isn't a critique but just a question.