Scary flop, but pretty good for my hand. what next?

jojobinks · #1 (**permalink**) 06-06-2007, 05:02 PM

PokerStars Game #10304989746: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/06/06 - 17:51:13 (ET)
Table 'Procyon IV' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: bluefork ($42.50 in chips)
Seat 2: Too-Anti-To ($23.50 in chips)
Seat 3: oku9 ($38.90 in chips)
Seat 4: ZenTrickster ($25 in chips)
Seat 5: Teuz ($23.95 in chips)
Seat 6: durambo ($26.05 in chips)
Seat 7: Gennadi74 ($24.25 in chips)
Seat 8: thejojobinks ($54.60 in chips)
durambo: posts small blind $0.10
Gennadi74: posts big blind $0.25
ngd1: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to thejojobinks [9d Td]
thejojobinks: calls $0.25
bluefork: folds
Too-Anti-To: folds
oku9: folds
ZenTrickster: folds
Teuz: folds
durambo: calls $0.15
Gennadi74: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jc 9h Tc]
durambo: bets $0.50
Gennadi74: calls $0.50
thejojobinks: ?????

no reads on the opponents. no need to comment on the utg limp. it's too loose, i know it.

luckychick · #2 (**permalink**) 06-06-2007, 05:43 PM

Ech, I hate flopping 2 pr on these kinds of boards. Straights, flush draw, better two pair are all out there. BUT, you're against the blinds only, sorta makes draws more likely than made hands, I think. If there were a bunch of other limpers I'd be more concerned. I raise up to 2.50 for value/information.

TheMightyJim2k · #3 (**permalink**) 06-06-2007, 07:55 PM

this is a case of two competeing objectives. 1) this is a very draw heavy board and with a vulnerable hand you want to price out draws and 2) your hand is not very strong for two-pair and you don't want this pot to spiral out of control with two other players.

Because the second player called you need to have increased worry about draws, but you also will have to raise more to price him out. I think you need to overbet the pot on the flop, but be very very cautious depending on what falls on the turn. With $1.75 in the pot right now I would suggest a raise to $3.50. That makes it worse than 2-1 for the lead bettor to call, and worse than 3-1 for the middle guy to call.

If you get repopped a bunch by the lead bettor or the caller you really have to reevaluate, but I would strongly consider laying it down.

the alternative play that I would probably use some of the time is to just call the flop and raise the turn if a safe card falls. This will allow you to control the pot some, and should minimize your loss when you are already beat. But it does give the open enders and flush drawers a really cheap look at the turn.

w16227 · #4 (**permalink**) 06-06-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMightyJim2k

the alternative play that I would probably use some of the time is to just call the flop and raise the turn if a safe card falls. This will allow you to control the pot some, and should minimize your loss when you are already beat. But it does give the open enders and flush drawers a really cheap look at the turn.

I like TMJ's alternate play here. Somehow you lucked out and have position on the rest of the field. Putting in a large sized raise might take it down right now - but may also get 2 calls which prices them in for possible future draws. Whth two in the pot - I would rather keep it cheap until the turn.

jojobinks · #5 (**permalink**) 06-06-2007, 08:05 PM

i agree that a raise is in order. i made it smaller than what tmj recommends, but not by much. didn't go small...too many scare cards.

PokerStars Game #10304989746: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/06/06 - 17:51:13 (ET)
Table 'Procyon IV' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: bluefork ($42.50 in chips)
Seat 2: Too-Anti-To ($23.50 in chips)
Seat 3: oku9 ($38.90 in chips)
Seat 4: ZenTrickster ($25 in chips)
Seat 5: Teuz ($23.95 in chips)
Seat 6: durambo ($26.05 in chips)
Seat 7: Gennadi74 ($24.25 in chips)
Seat 8: thejojobinks ($54.60 in chips)
durambo: posts small blind $0.10
Gennadi74: posts big blind $0.25
ngd1: sits out
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to thejojobinks [9d Td]
thejojobinks: calls $0.25
bluefork: folds
Too-Anti-To: folds
oku9: folds
ZenTrickster: folds
Teuz: folds
durambo: calls $0.15
Gennadi74: checks
*** FLOP *** [Jc 9h Tc]
durambo: bets $0.50
Gennadi74: calls $0.50
thejojobinks: raises $2.50 to $3
durambo: calls $2.50
Gennadi74: raises $4 to $7
thejojobinks: urgh? what now, sirs?

Poboy · #6 (**permalink**) 06-06-2007, 10:44 PM

Now I think you fold. Your hand just turned to crap. No A's, K's, Q's, J's, 8's or 7's or clubs are good for your hand, and you may be behind KQ, TT,99 or JT already.

I would've taken the call/raise safe turn line. HU, I raise.

littlebu · #7 (**permalink**) 06-06-2007, 10:48 PM

I think your way behind now and time to fold. I think a call see what happens on the turn line might be better?

TheMightyJim2k · #8 (**permalink**) 06-06-2007, 11:14 PM

between the two stacks you might be getting enough implied odds to hit your boat on the turn, but the problem is that you probably can't count yourself for a full 4 outs. It is very likely that one of the two players has a pair and a draw, or another player might have JT or J9 in which case you are totally screwed.

Also you can't guarantee that the other player is A) going to stay in the pot and B) only going to call the reraise. I think we can discount JJ,TT, and probably 99 since all of those hands would likely raise pf. I think we are looking at ranges like KQ-KT, QJ-Q8, JT-J8, T9-T8, 98 and 87. I just don't think we have enough equity against these ranges, and the three bet on the flop indicates that the middle player probably has a straight.

I'm folding, and pissed that I didn't give myself a chance to hit a boat, but I still think the best play is a raise on the flop.

jojobinks · #9 (**permalink**) 06-07-2007, 05:59 AM

wow. i hate calling and seeing a turn. doods, i have 4 outs, or i'm crushing. the raise let me know i have 4 outs. now i go bye bye.

Gennadi74: raises $4 to $7
thejojobinks: folds
durambo: calls $4
*** TURN *** [Jc 9h Tc] [As]
durambo: bets $5
Gennadi74: raises $12 to $17 and is all-in
durambo: calls $12
*** RIVER *** [Jc 9h Tc As] [5s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
durambo: shows [Kc 2h] (high card Ace)
Gennadi74: shows [Kh Qs] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
Gennadi74 collected $49.25 from pot

you likey durambo's play with k2o? i know i do.

TheMightyJim2k · #10 (**permalink**) 06-07-2007, 09:13 AM

nice to see that despite my total lack of NL game I can still get one of these right now and again.

ps: PL O8 for low stakes on Full Tilt is the shizzle. People literally don't know how to play the game. It is both easy money, and people play so bad after the flop that you can play a huge range of hands with position pf (which keeps me interested).