[yeltzen]

Okay, so interest in poker is slowly creeping back in. So, that's something that has changed over the past few months. Unfortunately, something that hasn't changed is that I really suck in blind stealing situations (stealing myself or having mine stolen). I was playing some $25NL today (trust me, these games are a cakewalk for me and the players are completely brain-dead, but I like to play in them every so often so I can laugh at their incompetence), and I got into one of these situations, and of course effed it up.

I'm only referring to cash games, here, because I am a tournament master and I never make any mistakes in blind-stealing situations in tournies. I always try to convince myself that blind-stealing in low stakes games like this is pointless, but then I read the awesome 2+2 forums, and they say blind-stealing is super important at 6-max and is where a lot of your profit should come from. WHO IS RIGHT?!?! MY BRAIN OR 2+2!?!?!? Any help will not be appreciated and you will be insulted. Thanks!


FullTiltPoker Game #2293288894: Table Drexel (6 max) - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 13:42:51 ET - 2007/04/26
Seat 1: MichaelBpzpz ($25)
Seat 2: AppsDude ($14.90)
Seat 3: varmato ($10.60)
Seat 4: yeltzen ($37.20)
Seat 5: JT720 ($10.15)
Seat 6: KAMACAZIKID ($24.50)
yeltzen posts the small blind of $0.10
JT720 posts the big blind of $0.25
The button is in seat #3

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to yeltzen [4c Ah]
KAMACAZIKID folds
MichaelBpzpz folds
AppsDude folds
varmato folds
yeltzen raises to $1
JT720 calls $0.75

*** FLOP *** [3d 5d Jc]
yeltzen bets $1.25
JT720 raises to $2.50
yeltzen has 15 seconds left to act

[Strange]

Clearly you just plain suck at stealing blinds.

[BrettButter]

I like being insulted, so why not.

I'd say listen to your brain. You're a good enough player to know what you're doing already, and while 2+2 may have an opinion, you can't argue with positive results in the long run. If you can win money without doing it, then you win. If you end up down because you don't steal a quarter every rotation, then you probably have more problems than stealing blinds.

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by Strange

Clearly you just plain suck at stealing blinds.

WTF how about me and u play HU then?!!? Pick the site and buy-in!!! Well, except for PokerRoom I'm not old enough to start an account there.

[BrettButter]

Please note that I forgot to include the obvious answer:

Ask BigWoody.

[TheMightyJim2k]

when i played NL I preferred blind stealing with hands that were easy to play after the flop, and I hated blind stealing from the SB. You are always acting first, and you are begging someone to put a move on you.

I prefer blind stealing from the CO and button with hands like T9, 76s, etc....

in the hand above I fold. Probably not worth putting some huge move to try and win such a small pot.

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by TheMightyJim2k

when i played NL I preferred blind stealing with hands that were easy to play after the flop, and I hated blind stealing from the SB. You are always acting first, and you are begging someone to put a move on you.

I prefer blind stealing from the CO and button with hands like T9, 76s, etc....

in the hand above I fold. Probably not worth putting some huge move to try and win such a small pot.

It's pretty sad that I only just now realized that was from the SB. I need to stop playing 29 tables. It's hard, though, since my win rate is like 60BBs/hr.

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by BrettButter

I like being insulted, so why not.

I'd say listen to your brain. You're a good enough player to know what you're doing already, and while 2+2 may have an opinion, you can't argue with positive results in the long run. If you can win money without doing it, then you win. If you end up down because you don't steal a quarter every rotation, then you probably have more problems than stealing blinds.

Here's the thing from 2+2 where the guy is talking about how much you should steal.

3. How's my stealing? To check on your performance when trying a blind steal, go to the General Info. tab. Where it says "Att. To Steal Blinds" I'd like to see that number at LEAST 20%. (Personally, I like mine to be over 30%, but I'm very aggressive in these situations. If you're trying to steal the blinds less than 20% of the time, you're leaving lots of money on the table.) Now click on "Filters..." and under "Chance to Steal Blinds" click "Chance to Steal & Raised." Select OK and look at the numbers. This shows every time you've tried to steal the blinds, and how the attempt turned out for you. Under "Totals" see the "BB/Hand" statistic. That shows your per-hand winrate on blind steals. If you multiply this number by 100, it should be at least double your "PTBB/100" average winrate. If it's much less than that and you have a decent sample size, you have a hole in your game when it comes to blind stealing. This should be an exceedingly profitable thing to do when you try it; if it's not, you need to work on your strategy.

4. Defending the blinds. Click on "Turn Filter Off," and then click on "Filters..." again. Under "Blind Status" click on "Either Blind." Now under "Vol. Put $ In Pot" click on "Put Money In." This shows you if you're bleeding money out of the blinds. A "BB/Hand" of about -0.375 would indicate that you were no better off putting money into the pot than if you had folded. If your "BB/Hand" is larger than that, then you typically win back some of your blind money when you put money into the pot from the blinds. That's all you can really hope for. If you click on "Filters..." again and go under "Steal Attempted Against Your Blind" and click on "Steal Attempted." After you click "OK" you'll now see how you did when you chose to defend against a blind steal. Again, the magic number is for your "BB/Hand" to be bigger than -0.375; that means you're making back some of your blinds when you try to defend against a steal. If either of these numbers is lower than -0.375, you'd lose less money by always folding rather than doing what you're doing.

He's one of the more respected guys there, so I'm assuming he knows what he's talking about. My numbers are way worse in both cases than he says they should be. I am winning, though, albeit really slowly, and only at $10NL... not $25NL.

[BrettButter]

Wow. I have a big hole in my game when it comes to blind stealing then. Also in defending blinds. At least in cash games.

I usually can do all right in $25NL, but I'm always closer to breaking even than I am to being up big. I also play full ring now though, I'm not aggressive enough to play 6max anymore. I used to do okay at Absolute, but then I decided that eating > playing poker, and took out my money.

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by BrettButter

Wow. I have a big hole in my game when it comes to blind stealing then. Also in defending blinds. At least in cash games.

I usually can do all right in $25NL, but I'm always closer to breaking even than I am to being up big. I also play full ring now though, I'm not aggressive enough to play 6max anymore. I used to do okay at Absolute, but then I decided that eating > playing poker, and took out my money.

I prefer full ring, but the games are just way too tight on FullTilt in general. The 6-max games aren't bad, so I stick to them. I also have a major hole if those kinds of stats are what is needed to win. Yiikes. On a high note, my pocket pair play is impeccable.