[JHickle]

Was I stupid, or did I get beat by stupid?

Saturday Night Monthly Home Game, 26 players, T20000

Played very solid poker and had 57500 at 1st break. Tables merged (down to 2 tables/20players). Watched a few hands to get a feel for the table plus not getting cards in poor position assisted in my observations.
Blinds: 500/1000
I am the BB and player X is two seats to my right. Player X is very loose in wanting to see every flop but has folded several times when up against a sizable bet. His chip count is approx 48k. BTW...player X is a ex-homicide detective and now works for the city as a homicide profiler so you would have to think his thought process is very through and detailed.
Table folds around to X and he calls. SB calls and I look down to see AK off. I raise 6x (6k), X calls and SB folds.
Flop: Q 10 9 rainbow
I make a continuation bet of 8k, X calls.
Turn: 7
I bet 15k, X calls.
River: Q (no flush possible)
I put him all in with 18k.
X turns over a pair of 4s and takes the pot.

Okay I'm very steamed but have a few chips left. In the next couple of loops around the table I was lucky enough to triple and then double up. Stack back at 56.5k.

Blinds are now 1500/3000 and I'm the SB. Table checks to player X (stack 85-90k), he calls and button folds. I look down to find Ac Kc and bet 12k. BB folds and X calls.
Flop: Ad Kh Jc
I bet 20k, X calls
Turn: 10c
I go all in with remaining 23k with top 2 pairs and the following draws: Royal Flush, Flush, Straight, Boat. Didn't calcuated my outs as it was a bunch and really didn't think I needed outs.
Player X calls and turns over Jc 7d
Does anyone want to guess what came on the river?????
Clue: We didn't chop the pot.
To top it off, I didn't even get to play on my newly remodled table and player X donkeyed off all his chip and didn't make it to final table.
To some, my play on 1st hand would be considered questionable, but how does one call down his entire stack on a pair of 4s? I was the aggressor and tried to push X off of the hand. REPRESENT a Big Hand and your opponent should fold (if they have squat).
2nd hand was purely a bad beat.

Any advise other than......Stick to Golf

[zeno]

If X is a good player then hand one is kind of the essence of poker. That is, you got owned by someone who just didn't believe for a second that you had it. It happens, and when it does we marvel (as students of the game), say "well played sir", and wonder about how he got such a good read on us...

...but then we see hand two.



From this we can conclude that X is probably not a good player but that he is either a calling station or a wild gambler.

So, knowing this, you will adjust your game (can't push X off a pocket pair no matter what the board shows, etc.) and play X to your advantage next time. Don't give up - that's the worst thing you could do. GL.

[jmc]

I'm not sure how to read your description of the action. If you're the BB/SB and X is the Button or cutoff, you act first in both hands.

I'm not sure if I really like playing AK the way you did in the first hand. You probably raised a little too much preflop, and forced yourself to make a larger continuation bet (assuming you miss -- you did) against an unknown opponent (who turns out to be a calling station -- worst case situation). Also, I tend to stop firing on the turn -- usually if someone can call both the preflop and flop bet, I'm behind. I need to know that my opponent respects my game before I keep firing with naked AK/gutshot in that spot.

You played hand #2 fine -- suckouts happen.

[JHickle]

Originally Posted by jmc

I'm not sure how to read your description of the action. If you're the BB/SB and X is the Button or cutoff, you act first in both hands.

OP corrected. I was 1st to act in both hands.

[indypoker]

In the first hand, I would have quit firing after the call on the turn. He had already called 6k pre-flop, 8 k post-flop and 15k after the turn. If he had no problem calling 29k, your last 18k will not scare him. He obviously had a tell or “feeling” on you. Maybe you made an uncharacteristic play? Maybe your large opening raise (6xBB) seemed out of place
The young guy that wears the headphones did that when we played heads-up in the charity tourney. He fired 30k post flop, 30k on the turn and 30k on the river and I called every bet. I had two pair and took the pot. I only had like 120k in my stack so I was obviously commited to the pot and wasn’t going anywhere. Had he checked the river, I wouldn’t have bet.

The second hand was just bad luck. It wasn’t against my friend Tim was it? That’s a play he makes every time. Please let me know who it was so that I know for next month’s game. I want to take that guys chips.>

[JHickle]

Originally Posted by indypoker

It wasn’t against my friend Tim was it? That’s a play he makes every time. Please let me know who it was so that I know for next month’s game. I want to take that guys chips.>

If I don't get them first..........I'll clue you in if he's there next month.
No, it wasn't Tim. If memory serves me correctly, I think he made an early exit (I could be wrong).

[indypoker]

Tim can't let bottom pair go....ever.

[BigWoody]

The first hand is a mess. A great example of someone over playing AK. Against a calling station, you only wanna be betting made hands... you don't try and bluff a calling station. AK is not a made hand, it's a really strong Ace high.

First, he limped in position.
(limping is something he does a lot of b/c he wants to see flops, correct?)

You raise from the BB with AK.
(the raise from the BB is kind of a waste of time and money, it is only gonna be a profitable play if you flop TPTK/etc. since he will call you down most of the time. You run the risk of not only missing the flop (30% of the time), but you're gonna be out of position the entire hand with no information about the villian's hand AND you'll be semi-obligated to put in MORE money as a continuation bet. The best play in this spot against this type of player would be to check to a flop. If you hit, then you can lead out and will probably be called, but if you miss you can decide whether or not you wanna fire at the pot or just try see another card)

Then firing all those bullets with nothing after he's called you down the whole way is a waste of chips. He isn't folding for 18k, when he's already put in 29k... you just wasted 18k on the river (which is a lot of chips at that point in the tournament).

The second hand, you can't help. There isn't really anything wrong with that one... you just got unlucky.

[tikipirate]

I agree, second hand was just a bad beat. It happens; you got your money in with the best hand. Case closed, don't worry about it. It will only mess with your games to second guess yourself.

The first hand, isn't a bad play, but with only the board pair and best and second best kicker, I don't see why you would want to play for all your chips. Somewhere around the turn or the river I would have slowed down and figured out where he was at. You arn't really scared of draws here. A little too aggressive, and if he thinks you are just trying to push him, he's likely to keep going with you, which is what happened. AK is a good hand, but I know too often I get in trouble with it; I think that may have happened here.

[Rich G]

I don't know if you knew about player X's profession before the hands or after, but I've found that assuming too much about a player by they're look, dress or in this case profession can be a dangerous game. Don't get me wrong, I've read some things from Caro and others relating to profiling, if you will, players but in this case I think you over estimated the person. I've played with a bunch of cops and found that their game varies as widely as any other folks. I have one guy who plays only the premium starting hands, AKs, A's, K's, Q's etc. and others who are complete maniacs at the table plus some calling stations and then a few (very few) real good players. Granted this is from a cash game and tourney's differ but in the end if a player aggressive, flop happy or tight they will continue this behavior either to your gain or loss regardless of occupation. Identify the player's tendancies and act accordingly unless something says otherwise and you'll be the guy he leaks chips to.
My .02.