[Harlequin011]

Setting:

My buddy's super juicy $1/3 game with the Dr.s and lawyers. Very nice game, fun and lots of money flying around. 5- 10K in play at any time. Sometimes we mix is up with PLO. I just re-bought for $200 after the big blind stacked me when he got in real bad with pocket 9s and cracked my AA.

We are playing

We try limping in middle position and the small blind raises to $16. One person calls between and we call. ( The small blind is raising every other hand to $16 and is very aggressive pre-flop. Not a terrible player, knows lots of numbers and has read a couple of books. ) I've got a good read on him 80% of the time.

Small blind is rushing around $1600 in his stack
2 others $400 - 500
Me $200 just re-bought

The other two are pretty easy to figure out.

We pick up another caller.

4 players see the flop.



SB bets out $20 one fold.

It's our action.

[yeltzen]

I think you still messed up. Is the button re-raising? Or the small blind?

[jojobinks]

assuming the sb is the raiser, and then he fires the flop, and you have players left to act...

this is precisely the reason why KJ sucks and it's best not to get involved with it.

additional factors to it's suckiness in THIS case:

• you're out of position
• it's multiway
• you flopped a medium strength hand
• you're not shortstacked (you'll have to play multiple streets)
• you're playing against a known loose/aggressive.

good news: you have position on the maniac.

your list of bad options at this point:
fold: but dude, i have top pair with a mediocre kicker!
raise: might pick up the pot. but if you don't you're in a world of hurt and can't continue on the turn if there's any reasonable action. this is a classic small hand small pot situation, and so this is just horrible, imo.
call: letting in the player behind you, but keeping the pot small enough that you might be able to get to showdown. hope for check check on the turn and maybe he bets small enough for you to find a call on the river.

i think all choices suck. i lean towards calling, with raising being the worst choice.

[Harlequin011]

Originally Posted by yeltzen

I think you still messed up. Is the button re-raising? Or the small blind?

fixed thanks

[Harlequin011]

jojo,

if we don't get in a little dirty every now and then, the maniac will push us out of just about every pot pre-flop.

More info 4-5 players seeing the flop is not a big deal with this game. Don't get me wrong I don't love this hand and would rarely play it in a casino but here anything goes.

Anyway...

I raise to 50.

Player behind folds.

SB bounces head side to side and calls. Now I'm thinking total weakness on his part. It's just coming together for me now. I know he has something, but he's not in love.

Turn

He bets $100.

Now this bet is reeking of stinky hand syndrome. I've been seeing this all night. It's a steal. He made up his mind that this was going in no matter what the turn card was.

...then something unexpected. SB starts giving off some indications of a very big hand. And it's not just one or two tells, it's damn near all of them. I'm no master of tells, but I do pick up on them every now and then. And SB is giving up all of these while I'm in the tank, brewing my move in my mind.

All the strength tells look unnatural. They are all overdone and just feel weird looking at him. Like a 50's cowboy movie where the guy gets shot and takes 30 min to die while clutching his chest and flailing his legs, while delivering is final address to his bestest pal. ... SB is acting, and poorly at that. He wants me to think he is strong. ... or thats what I think anyway.

What do we do?

[Strange]

For clarification: are you carrying?

[ACE'S FULL]

Now I am no poker expert here but I will give this a go...

You have top pair med kicker turn brings you a flush draw... You are in the pot for $66 out of your $200 so you have $134 left he bets out $100... You cant call as you are pot commited...

You either

a. Push if you think he is on bluff...
b. Fold and pick a better spot...

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by Harlequin011

jojo,

if we don't get in a little dirty every now and then, the maniac will push us out of just about every pot pre-flop.

that's cool with me...preflop is usually when i bow out.

you only started the pot with $200. you have 70ish in already. not sure why not to go with it now. i think you're indicating here that he's projecting some fake tells.

alright then.

[drake]

You will never make any money in this game without following your instincts and gambling.

You have to follow your instincts.
You only have $200 and it sounds like you are the small stack. All you can lose is $200!!


ALL IN, If he has the straight or flopped a set.....You still have OUTS.



JMHO,
Drake

[TheMightyJim2k]

ok... lemme see.

1. this is a fold preflop. Despite the fact that you have 70bb when you rebuy the maniac is making this game play more like a 8/15 blind structure. In that case you only have about 14bb and you need to play uber-tight pf and push on the flop with strong hands. Read beginning hold'em by Ed miller to understand how to play this shortstacking strategy.

so....preflop this is any easy fold because you're stack is the exact wrong size to play with mediocre hands. You are going to end up making a decision on the turn for your whole stack with a mediocre hand. you never want to do that. jojo summed it up best, there are no good plays on the flop.

2. that being said.....the flop is decent for your hand. At this point there is approx $80 in the pot and the bet is $20 to you. If you are going to play you need to raise to $100-120 or so. That way noone behind you is getting very big odds/ implied odds to call with flush or straight draws. If you really think everyone is week then this is the play. If you are uncomfortable with this play then you should fold.

3. on the turn i think you have a clear fold. The small blind just called your flop raise and then donked big into the turn. This is a pretty strong play. Unless this guy is trying to throw away money on a bluff he has something. You also say another guy at the table is giving off crazy strength tells. If you think that these are real then you just need to lay it down. We have to assume that at this point we will be playing for our stack. You can't call the turn bet and then fold the river. So all expected value calculations can be made assuming we get it all in. At best here you could give yourself 10 outs, improving to a flush or trip Ks (give 9 flush outs and we'll give you credit for 1 K since someone could already have your trip Ks beat with a set). That is 3-1 odds and at best you are getting 2-1 on your $$$ (assuming the both call your all-in). This is a -EV play and makes it a fold IMHO.

its a fold.