Do I correct a dealer mistake

Rich G · #1 (**permalink**) 01-29-2007, 05:07 PM

Last live tourney I played I thought that the dealer made a mistake. What is my responsibility when I'm not in a hand as apposed to in the hand.

Mistake #1- Early in tourney, two people in the pot at showdown. I've folded preflop and I could have sworn that one player has more than two down cards face-up. He raked the pot with two pair. Maybe it was because we just got done with Omaha but I didn't call it out before they were mucked. Didn't want to make enemies that early in the tourney plus I couldn't believe that the guy really had more cards. I thought I was dreaming or something. Didn't affect me and a short stack won so I wasn't greatly concerned.

Is their poker etiquete on this..

PFunk · #2 (**permalink**) 01-29-2007, 05:14 PM

I think the assumption is that players should feel morally obligated to point out a mistake if they witness one at the table....It is stated in Robert's Rules of Poker in so many other words that way, I believe.

I certainly understand people who just want to mind their own business in certain situations such as someone not being able to read their own hand for example...But for cheating, collusion, shorting a pot or dealer errors and these types of things, I certainly think every player should be obligated to bring it up if they see something.

I am confused on your situation if you care to clarify though...You thought one of the players somehow had more then two cards he was playing with?...Just interesting how that could come up and happen if so.

Rich G · #3 (**permalink**) 01-29-2007, 05:44 PM

I didn't notice anything different until the two guys laid down their cards at the showdown. I was close to guy when he laid down his hand and I wanted to see what this guy was playing. The dealer was right next to the player and touched his cards and when he did, I could have sworn I saw the extra card/cards in the hand. It was so wierd that I couldn't bring myself to call this out. I thought I was dreaming or something. If I was in the hand, for sure I would have said something, but the cards got mucked and the potential downside for me was too much.

the3rd · #4 (**permalink**) 01-29-2007, 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFunk

I am confused on your situation if you care to clarify though...You thought one of the players somehow had more then two cards he was playing with?...Just interesting how that could come up and happen if so.

Sounds like a mixed game tourney. He just got finished with Omaha. I look at any situation like this. Use the golden rule. If someone started scooping your pot and someone at the table knew and didn't say anything, you'd be mad. If possible, it's best to ask the dealer for clarification and not confront a player directly if you are worried about making enemies.

PFunk · #5 (**permalink**) 01-29-2007, 05:57 PM

Thats interesting...If it were me I would have had to say something and do it in kind of a joking manner to not offend anyone just to figure out what the deal was, cuz my curiousity would be just too much....plus I am just too honest and fair for my own good at times.... but as far as being obligated to say something I think different people have different view points on this, obviously.

As far as etiquette goes....if someone thinks its rude of you to point out a possible wrong ruling, or mishappen at the table they are probably a jerk, unethical, or both. If you point something out that makes them lose a pot who cares...Enemies are very good to have at the poker table in my opinion, as long as your mental focus is there, this is a big advantage for you if you are in their head.

Rich G · #6 (**permalink**) 01-29-2007, 06:07 PM

It wasn't a mixed game (straight NLHE) We had been playing in a HO game just about 45 minutes prior.

If the player had more than two hole cards, he had to know this and the dealer was right on top of him. I would have had to stop the game right there before they were mucked. I've never seen this in the casino so it wasn't registering right away. I didn't think collusion or cheating but a mistake and by then the cards were mucked. I regreting not saying anything for a short time, but I'm new to this card room. I guess I was thinking long term at this point. And yes I would have been ticked if this was my pot.

Rich G · #7 (**permalink**) 01-29-2007, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFunk

Thats interesting...If it were me I would have had to say something and do it in kind of a joking manner to not offend anyone just to figure out what the deal was, cuz my curiousity would be just too much....plus I am just too honest and fair for my own good at times.... but as far as being obligated to say something I think different people have different view points on this, obviously.

As far as etiquette goes....if someone thinks its rude of you to point out a possible wrong ruling, or mishappen at the table they are probably a jerk, unethical, or both. If you point something out that makes them lose a pot who cares...Enemies are very good to have at the poker table in my opinion, as long as your mental focus is there, this is a big advantage for you if you are in their head.

It probably goes with my demeanor NOT to call this out. I think your suggestions about a joking question about the cards was the best way out for me. My style is very quiet at the table and I rarely talk to anyone unless I'm trying to provoke a loose call with a huge hand. I dont chat it up or table talk so any reactions on my part can seem as aggresive to most since I've been so quiet. I know I'll be ticking off at least the winner and the dealer if what I saw was correct. The loser will likely be elated, but how others not in the hand react is a crapshoot. I was more observant from that point on with the dealer and the winner of that hand.

the3rd · #8 (**permalink**) 01-29-2007, 06:23 PM

I'd chalk it up to optical illusion. Even though it's easier to pull off some sneaky behavior in seats 1 and 10 due to the limits in peripheral vision. When I was at the Nugget the woman next to me put in too much to call a raise. I pointed it out just as the dealer reached for her chips. She handed the $1 chip to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich G

It wasn't a mixed game (straight NLHE) We had been playing in a HO game just about 45 minutes prior.

If the player had more than two hole cards, he had to know this and the dealer was right on top of him. I would have had to stop the game right there before they were mucked. I've never seen this in the casino so it wasn't registering right away. I didn't think collusion or cheating but a mistake and by then the cards were mucked. I regreting not saying anything for a short time, but I'm new to this card room. I guess I was thinking long term at this point. And yes I would have been ticked if this was my pot.

Rich G · #9 (**permalink**) 01-29-2007, 06:31 PM

Optical illusion sounds good. I'm new to the brick and mortar tourney and expected fewer dealer mistakes. I did quickly realize that dealers (along with players) make mistakes quite often and it seems that dealers are slow to recognize or call out their own mistakes and the mistakes of other players.

In the same tourney, with blinds 50-100 I placed a 500 chip out intending to raise to 300 but didn't announced raise UTG+1. The dealer was talking to the other end of the table and didn't notice me until a fold and middle position asked if this was a raise. Dealer immediately said that this was a call and middle postion limped in also with a call. I decided to not call him out on this either.

JM · #10 (**permalink**) 01-29-2007, 06:35 PM

The last SNG I played at foxwoods, the dealer dealt 3 cards to one of the players when we were 3 handed. He pointed out the error as soon as he saw he had an extra card and I thanked him for doing so. I think I would have said something here, as I'd want someone else to do so for me if I was losing the pot to something fishy.