[BrettButter]

I've seen a lot of these threads, and there are a lot of good players who give great insight on how to correctly play a hand. I'm sure I misplayed this hand, but I'd like to see how others treat it.

11 people left at two tables, 13 original players started with T1000 + 3 re-buys at T1000

6-handed at my table, I'm third in chips with 2600. It's folded to me in the small blind, with blinds at 50-100. The big blind has 3200 in chips.



The big blind is pretty aggressive and raises a lot of pots, but I want to take a flop with this hand. He protects his blinds if raised, but also likes to see flops.

I limp, hoping he'll check. He raises to 300. I call to see a flop.



I lead out and bet 400 into the pot, with an open ended straight draw, four flush, and two overcards. He raises to 1100. In all fairness, I try a lot of limp steals out of position (hey, it works at our games usually), so I'm thinking it's a big position play, or he has a big pair Qs-As. I choose this point to commit the rest of my chips on a coin flip, assuming he has a big pair. I did the math in my head, but I was fairly sure I was about 50/50 on the flop if I put him on a big pair. I wasn't completely convinced he had one, so I also thought I may have the overs as outs. I go all in. He goes into the tank for about 4-5 minutes, and says "I call, do you have aces?" - meaning he has kings, before he flips over his cards.

He has

Turn:
River:

I'm out of the tournament. The guy who knocks me out eventually wins.

I think back on it for the rest of the night, trying to think of other ways I could have played it. I came to two conclusions:

Fold pre-flop.
Check/call the flop.

I also thought about not knowing the turn card. If I knew the turn was an ace, the check/call would be the best play for me. Then I can represent it on the turn, and I know for a fact he'd lay down the kings on the turn with the ace out there. Given the situation, I'm fairly sure I would have check/raised if I had not known what the turn card would be, leaving me in this same situation. If I do check/call, I can get away from the draws with the ace on board and probably lose less than half of my stack, leaving me in the middle of the pack.

Opinions?

[99%evil]

Next time hit a heart or a jack on the river. Then you'll be set.

[JoseRijo]

I don't see how you can fold pre-flop. If you raised pre-flop, he might've pushed, and *then* you could fold.
Post flop, you could've open-pushed, but it's fine as played. You realize it was
a coin-flip, right?

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2332736
pokenum -h kh ks - qh th -- 7h 8s 9h
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 8s 9h 7h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks Kh 480 48.48 501 50.61 9 0.91 0.489
Qh Th 501 50.61 480 48.48 9 0.91 0.511

[BrettButter]

Originally Posted by 99%evil

Next time hit a heart or a jack on the river. Then you'll be set.

Do you have something against a 6?

[BrettButter]

Originally Posted by JoseRijo

I don't see how you can fold pre-flop. If you raised pre-flop, he might've pushed, and *then* you could fold.
Post flop, you could've open-pushed, but it's fine as played. You realize it was
a coin-flip, right?

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=2332736
pokenum -h kh ks - qh th -- 7h 8s 9h
Holdem Hi: 990 enumerated boards containing 8s 9h 7h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ks Kh 480 48.48 501 50.61 9 0.91 0.489
Qh Th 501 50.61 480 48.48 9 0.91 0.511

Thanks for all of the statistics on it.

I "knew" that it was a coin flip, but it could have been better. He could have had 10s or Js, giving me an extra out with a Q, or even something like A10, AJ, AQ, AK, KQ and trying to push me off of a draw. Him having the Kh takes one of my outs. Even if he flopped a set in that situation, I still have the same outs (with the exception of the 8h) - but I always try to find ways out of the situation I lost in. I feel a little better knowing that it wasn't a complete donkey move, but I probably shouldn't rest my whole tournament on that coin flip. I was playing well that day, with a loose table image despite playing fairly tight poker.

[99%evil]

yeah, I don't like to see the six, then you're only second nuts to a J,10. And a second nut straight, isn't the hand I like to hit against an over pair. I really want to shove it in their face...and say "See, see what overplaying that crap got you...I laugh at your monster, now give me your chips"

[TheMightyJim2k]

couple things:

Help yourself and us out by reposting OP in a format similar to:

First give a summary of stack sizes, blind sizes, table situation (you did a pretty good job of this). Second give us any reads you have on the villain(s) (you did a pretty good job of this). Then gives us information up until the first meaningful decision in the hand and STOP. For your hand that would be the flop.

So you would just say you called pf and then saw the following flop, and ask what we would do.

Then wait for some responses and then state what you did in a response later in the thread. So your next post would say something to the effect that you lead out and were raised on the flop, then stop again and give the relevant information. How much is in the pot. How much you have left, and whether or not you have any rebuys. Then ask us what we would do.

Once you get some responses you can finish out the thread by telling us what you did and what the results were.

This is the only way that we can give you honest non-results-oriented opinions.

This makes it more fun for the people following along, makes the conclusion more interesting (its a puzzle we have to figure it out), and gets you the best information from the lots of good posters and players on the site.

This isn't meant to be harsh or too critical, because lots of people post their hands like this, but I think we could all get more out of it if we followed a guideline like above.

my thoughts on your hand to follow.....

[TheMightyJim2k]

ok so my thoughts on your hand:

pf the call is fine. you are getting 2-1 with a decent hand in HU pot where the BB blind might have been stealing. Realize though that you are going to be playing out of position and against another good sized stack so you need to hit hard or just let it go.

The flop is pretty much jackpot for you. two overs, flush draw, open-ended straight draw including one end to the mortal nuts (ie if he has T9 and the J hits you still win). This is the kind of flop you were looking for and especially in a rebuy tournament you need to get your chips in on this flop. The question is how do you get your chips in and put the most pressure possible on one pair hands? Options:

1. lead out like you did and possibly fold AK, KQ type hands that missed but are ahead of you. If you get action then you can decide whether to reraise all-in.
2. check and see what your opponent does. If villain leads out for a pot-sized bet there is going to be 1200 in the pot and you'll have 2300 behind. At this point any type of checkraise will pot commit you so you might as well just shove. If villain checks behind take a lot at a free turn card, and probably lead at the turn as a semi-bluff to try to take down the hand.

If you have rebuys left then my goal is to get all of my chips in the middle on the flop. I'm gambling early in rebuys and I want a chance to build up a huge stack with a great draw like this. If he mucks in the process that works out fine too. If I read this guy as a habitual cont. bettor then I am going to checkraise him all-in. If he is a pretty tight player who might muck to a flop bet I am leading out, and hoping to get raised. Then I'm going to three bet it all in and hope he mucks, knowing that I am usually a coin-flip or better if he calls. either way you gain some folding equity and still guarantee that you are going to see the turn and river with great equity.

I think you played the hand well. You almost got the KK to fold on the flop, and when he calls no big deal. You got unlucky, but hopefully you had some rebuys behind and got right back into the mix.

gl at the next one.

[jojobinks]

haven't read the responses yet, but...

you want to get all in on that flop. you succeeded, but didn't hit. that's the whole story, as far as i can tell.

the only thing i would have done different is lean toward a fold preflop. the thing is, you got a good flop and still busted. survival is pretty important in a tournament...and your gamble preflop (limping and then calling) wasn't good for your chances to survive.

if i asked you before that hand would you like to get all in blind against the bb blind, it's likely you'd have passed. but that's pretty much what you did on the flop.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

14,850 games 0.005 secs 2,970,000 games/sec

Board: 7h 9h 8d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 53.798% 53.25% 00.55% 7908 81.00 { QhTh }
Hand 1: 46.202% 45.66% 00.55% 6780 81.00 { QQ+ }

so i think it plays itself on the flop, but i'd do my best not to bust, which means often folding pf.

[Poboy]

Hmm. I'd raise preflop. QTs is pretty good in a blind battle.