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10-19-2006, 11:47 PM
|  | Big Stack | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: western connecticut
Posts: 1,225
Chips: 1,401
| | | i must be missing something
rant ahead: warning
my small stakes limit game has gone into the crapper lately..playing tight and agressive as always, but cant get anyone out of a hand...
P*'s .50/1 lim : qq pre-flop..capped, sandwiched a player holding A-2o who called the cap, the other raiser holding TT, of course A shows on the flop with nothing else...saw the rest cheaply, odds enough to see it anyway...i know i should dove out after the A flopped..
watching the table for a while, people winning with 4-9o and 3-6s and other rags...things i would never play except free in the BB or suited cheap for 1/2 in the sb
even my live game a foxwoods last trip bombed..had best hand pre-flop many times and couldnt push out the rags only holders, only to have them catch thier cards..
must go re-read SSHE AGAIN (3rd times a charm right?)....maybe i am just in a down swing that i need to ride...
how else do you push 'em out..should i just limp and screw the value raises with my high pockets? and cut my losses with suited slick...thats anti-sklansky thinkin isnt it?
do i need to go up higher than .50/1 online? its gotta be poor post flop play..got to be!
advice?
ok enough rant...
thanks for listening
1malt  |
10-20-2006, 12:18 AM
|  | Poker Nerd (and Admin) | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: bottom pair and a flush draw Age: 35
Posts: 10,673
Chips: 18,535
| | | Re: i must be missing something
you can't push 'em out. so you bet for value, or you check raise and make them make bigger mistakes.
stop pretending you can make them fold: you can't. once you're comfy with that, it gets easier. |
10-20-2006, 12:23 AM
|  | ChipTalk.net Article Writer | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Hamilton, ON
Posts: 794
Chips: 1,577
| | | Re: i must be missing something
Do what I just did -- play mad.
After the Mets lose, I go to P* $0.50-$1 (6max) tables... start with $15, end with $42.
Would have kept playing, but for some reason the other players left the table... |
10-20-2006, 07:53 AM
| | Big Stack | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: western connecticut
Posts: 1,225
Chips: 1,401
| | | Re: i must be missing something
Quote: |
Originally Posted by jojobinks you can't push 'em out. so you bet for value, or you check raise and make them make bigger mistakes.
stop pretending you can make them fold: you can't. once you're comfy with that, it gets easier. | i do know that, i think i am just on a bad down turn run where my qualtily PF holdings, that i invest in PF are worth nil post flop...soon, they will hit..they must..
thanks for letting me rant last nite
1malt |
10-20-2006, 08:31 AM
|  | Big Stack | | Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,280
Chips: 2,331
| | | Re: i must be missing something
You probably already know this, but playing against opponents like this is profittable in the long run...and if the opponents are REALLY loose, it shouldn't be that long at all. You WANT play like this, even when your queens get busted by junk. At a table like this, your premium hands do not have as much value as they would at a table of TAG players....simply because so many players are playing drawing hands, and you cant force them off. Knowing that your premiums will often have to go all the way to showdown, try not to get married to them.
Like you said, bet for value, knowing that they will stay in. Keep a close eye on the pot odds on YOUR drawing hands, and bet enough when you feel your opponent is on a draw to make it unpofittable for them when they miss. If they are consistently chasing, it should not take too long to make back anything you give to them when they catch.
one more thing...why would you want to go up in levels? To play against a tougher opponent who will respect your bets? The money you give him WON'T be coming back.
You have a goldmine here, start digging. |
10-20-2006, 12:19 PM
| | On the Bubble | | Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 127
Chips: 83
| | | Re: i must be missing something
Just some random observations and comments based on my experience:
As Colquhoun notes, in the long run you WANT players like this at your table since their playing style is definitely minus EV. But in the short run, these players can win hugely if the deck runs them over. I've played at $2 - $4 tables in Las Vegas and seen these types of players win $600+ in the course of four hours without ever making an intelligent bet or poker decision.
When I've played at tables like this, I've had to work hard at (1) continuing to make the right bets despite getting constantly sucked out against my good hands, and (2) fighting the frustration of watching poor players and dumb bets win in the short term, especially when I'm card dead for a few hours. If you've experienced the same feelings, you know what I'm talking about.
Personally, I no longer play limit games when I go to Las Vegas precisely because I don't like these types of players. I'll play either $1 - $2 or $2 - $5 no-limit, since I have more control in these games. Still, I've had significant losses at times in NL since the loose players can always suck out against your better hand, but if you have even just average luck in a NL cash game, you can do really well once you've read the table accurately (there always seem to be a fair number of players who will play any ace, any two suited cards, and any two connectors, and these players can be like an ATM).
In the home game in which I play, we mostly play pot-limit games rather than limit, and even at starting blinds of $0.25 - $0.50, the bet sizes can get very large very rapidly, allowing almost the same level of control as an NL holdem game.
Don't hesitate to post updates about your progress in playing this type of game! |
10-20-2006, 12:30 PM
|  | ChipTalk.net Article Writer | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Boston Age: 25
Posts: 2,261
Chips: 5,913
| | | Re: i must be missing something
most of the guys, especially JoJo, have hit the nail on the head. You have to keep value betting and raising with hands when you have positive expectation. If you have odds in a capped pot to call for a bet postflop and try to hit your Q two outer then you didnt make a mistake. so the guy with A2 won, whatever. If he keeps playing A2 you are going to make it all back eventually.
It's variance. Ignore the results and focus on playing your best, hand after hand. Review HH and think about your plays. If you are making the right plays then just keep plugging. Oh, and it is never a bad idea to reread SSHE. It can only help your game and you might find a post-flop leak in your play. I was going through a similar rut lately and found that I was calling down with top pair with a great kicker too often when getting raised on the turn or river. typically at low stakes if someone reraises you and they aren't a maniac they have TPTK beat and you should just muck it a move on.
good luck and when that positive variance kicks in and you are beating the tables for 10BB/100hands post on here and tell us how you solved it all.  |
10-20-2006, 03:34 PM
| | Big Stack | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: western connecticut
Posts: 1,225
Chips: 1,401
| | | Re: i must be missing something
i will let you know when i have 'em beat for sure, i just need to survive my neg variiance for a bit..i need to not play my poor starters just cause i am bored..i will stick it out and find my ATM eventually...
gonna hit SSHE this weekend and get back to the grind next week....
1malt |
10-22-2006, 04:00 PM
| | World Series Champ | | Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,099
Chips: 7,134
| | | Re: i must be missing something
My advice would be to stop playing low limit Hold'em as long as you have this mentality. You will get destroyed. I hate the "poker is all about making correct decisions" cliche, but you seriously have to look at it like that in these games. You can't worry about making great sandwhich plays to get people out of the pot. You got a guy to call a cap with A2o. That's all you can ask for. You'll normally win that hand. |
10-22-2006, 04:26 PM
| | Big Stack | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: western connecticut
Posts: 1,225
Chips: 1,401
| | | Re: i must be missing something
Quote: |
Originally Posted by yeltzen My advice would be to stop playing low limit Hold'em as long as you have this mentality. You will get destroyed. I hate the "poker is all about making correct decisions" cliche, but you seriously have to look at it like that in these games. You can't worry about making great sandwhich plays to get people out of the pot. You got a guy to call a cap with A2o. That's all you can ask for. You'll normally win that hand. | yeltz..
i am confused, which mentality are you talking about...?
i was making the "right moves" eg capping an A2o caller, and agreed with all of you that i should be doing this, so what was it i said that made you think i was going to switch it up...
i am not upset that you said that, i just want to clarify...if i said something that should make it seem i have the wrong "mentality" that i shouldnt play llhe, as you suggest, tell me so i can change my mindset..
i was reding a few chapters today in SSHE..i may have i.d'd some of my holes...
1. playing overpairs incorrectly
2. playing against potential overcallers incorrectly, limiting my river profits
i need to work on these next...
i also noticed in one section him describing a "terrific hand" A6  with flop J 6  3  ...i wouldnt have normally considered middle pair and backdoor flush combo's a "terrific" holding from middle position...maybe i am misisng this concept too..
boris, i await your words of wisdom...
1malt | | |
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