[Nanook]

Here is my situation:

I have been playing poker casually for 20+ yrs, but about a year ago I decided that I really wanted to get better at Hold Em specifically. I bought a few books that were suggested read them and started playing on line mostly. When I first started I played exclusively in $5.5 and $11 SNG's. I did this for about 6 months or so and had some success, but I found that it was hard for me to actually sit down and play constantly for 1 - 1 1/2 hrs. I have a real job and a family etc. It seemed that I was constantly getting interrupted at a crucial point in the tourney so I decided to start playing NLHE cash at 10¢/25¢ thinking that I could just stop at any time a bit easier. This seems to work a bit better for me. I only get to play live about 1 x month or so, but I have been playing on line an average of 2k hands/ month on line for the last 6 months or so. The first month I lost $150. The next two months were overall positive, but barely ( +$40 and -$7) I then made a goal for myself to try and make $100/month and also to try and focus on anticipating other peoples next move better to try and avoid the big losses. The next 2 months I was up about $125 each month and now this month I am up about $210. Yesterday I played quite a bit and had my best day so far. I played 294 hands and was up exactly $100.35 for the day. My bankroll on p* now sits at $625 and for the first time I am considering moving up in stakes.

It seems that for the past few months I do have losing sessions, but they rarely extend beyond even 1 buy in ($25 for me) Someone posted a little clip that Fergusson posted once about needing 20buy ins for a BR. Honestly, I have a job and that is really all I need to play at these levels, but I would really like to do it right and build it up from playing. So when do I move up in stakes to 25¢/50¢ and when would I move back down if I start losing? My thought is when I hit 30 buy ins I double the stakes which then gives me only 15 buy ins. If this should ever get down to 10 buy ins then back the stakes down in half again. Now I would be at 20 buy ins again. Just continue to follow this policy.

Is this too agressive, too conservative? Thoughts??

Nanook

[TheMightyJim2k]

sounds like a very reasonable and thought out strategy. It is very similar to the one I am using in limit hold'em. When I get to 300 BB I move up in limits. If I go down 100BB at the higher limit I move back down. So far I have moved up twice and moved back down once due to the Pary Monster Promotion.

Just don't forget that eventually variance will happen and you will have a long losing streak. Don't let that hurt your confidence or cause you to overplay your bankroll to regain what you have lost. Stick to your strategy. If you catch a bad run of cards or some really bad luck don't worry about it. If it is bad enough you have to drop down limits don't worry about it, the best players all did it (Jen Harman failed to move up to the Big Game like 12 times before she made it).

The good news is that tight-aggressive play in NL cash games seems to help limit variance. For the most part you should see less bankroll fluctuations then your typical tourney or limit player.

good post and good strategy. Best of luck to the move up and enjoy the ride.

[hachkc]

It sounds good as the general rule of thumb is 15-30 buyins depending on table type (6max or full ring) as well as playing style TAG vs LAG.

Do you MTT? If so, how many at a time? You might try adding 1 higher limit table along with your other tables. You don't have to instantly jump to a higher limit but simply mix it up a bit to see how things work out. I'd set some basic levels like

Min bankroll for this level - As soon as you fall below this, go down a level.
Normal bankroll - When you exceed this, mix it up some
Max bankroll for this level - As soon as you exceed this, go up a level.

When you are between the normal and max, just play a little of each.

BB	Min	Normal	Max
.25	375	500	1000
.50	750	1000	2000
1	1500	2000	4000
2	3000	4000	8000

[Nanook]

Originally Posted by hachkc

Do you MTT? If so, how many at a time?

Yes, but usually only 2 at a time. I have tried more, but it just gets too much for me right now. Are you thinking that the more tables you play, the more BR you need? I'm not sure how that would work, but it seems that as you have more in play, you might want a bigger BR. Not sure on this...

Originally Posted by hachkc

When you are between the normal and max, just play a little of each.

This sounds like a decent idea.

Thanks guys

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by Nanook

Are you thinking that the more tables you play, the more BR you need?

Not at all. Some folks will argue that more tables helps reduce variance. IMHO, the more tables you play the more ABC poker you need to play and the more I find myself relying on my HUD for decisions rather than my reads. I usually play between 3-5 tables at the lower limts (.10/.25 - .25/.50 NL) and less tables at the higher limits (1/2NL).

My point was if you are multi-tabling, have a mixture of different limits going. Let's say you are 2 tabling and using the chart I listed above. Once you get over $500 or so, mix your stakes up by playing every 4th buyin at the next limit. At $700, maybe every 3rd buyin and at $900 every other buyin.

If you are serious about this online poker which is sounds like you are, take some of your bankroll and get PokerTracker (PT) or PokerOffice (PO) and a HUD; assuming you don't have them already. I personally use PT and PokerAce's HUD but I believe PO comes with its own HUD.

[Nanook]

Originally Posted by hachkc

Not at all. Some folks will argue that more tables helps reduce variance. IMHO, the more tables you play the more ABC poker you need to play and the more I find myself relying on my HUD for decisions rather than my reads. I usually play between 3-5 tables at the lower limts (.10/.25 - .25/.50 NL) and less tables at the higher limits (1/2NL).

My point was if you are multi-tabling, have a mixture of different limits going. Let's say you are 2 tabling and using the chart I listed above. Once you get over $500 or so, mix your stakes up by playing every 4th buyin at the next limit. At $700, maybe every 3rd buyin and at $900 every other buyin.

If you are serious about this online poker which is sounds like you are, take some of your bankroll and get PokerTracker (PT) or PokerOffice (PO) and a HUD; assuming you don't have them already. I personally use PT and PokerAce's HUD but I believe PO comes with its own HUD.

Good ideas...

I do have both PokerTracker and PokerAce Hud and I use them both. I think I have only scratched the surface of how to get the most out of them. At the moment I have read most of the bet the pot tutorials. I used his suggestions to auto rate players, but still am using the standard set up. The only thing that I feel like I get much use out of is vp$ip. I know that it would be in my best interest to start using and understanding some of the other stuff in there too. I guess I need to spend some more time with it....

If you or anyone else has any other suggested resourses on using PT and getting more out of it, I am all ears.

Nanook

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by Nanook

At the moment I have read most of the bet the pot tutorials. I used his suggestions to auto rate players, but still am using the standard set up. The only thing that I feel like I get much use out of is vp$ip. I know that it would be in my best interest to start using and understanding some of the other stuff in there too. I guess I need to spend some more time with it....

I keep meaning to go through those tutorials. VP$IP is probably the easiest to make use of as well as PFR for putting your opponent on a range of hands. I seem to remember reading somewhere that a PFR of around 3 usually indicates strong hands like TT+ or something to that extent.

[Jambine]

Originally Posted by Nanook

....Is this too agressive, too conservative? Thoughts??

Nanook

Nanook, this is really a tough question, and I don’t mean to over-simplify the answer, but here it is:
.... You won’t know if you’re ready to move up, until you move up.

I think it has more to do with the skill level of players you encounter, than the stakes. Although they will both go up (generally) as you move up.
You can be playing way above where you should be, and still be winning. Just as you can move down, and lose. It’s all about finding the highest level where you can consistently do well.

I know that all sounds like some kind of meaningless philosophical BS. Damn, maybe I should be a politician.

[TheMightyJim2k]

Jambine is right when talking about skill level. You won't know if you are skilled enough to play until you move up. However I think your relative ability has little to do with proper bankroll management. You could dake Daniel Negraneau and set him at the 2/4 tables at party and if you didn't give him a reasonable bankroll he is going to go bust some of the time. Variance is mfer and regardless of whether or not you outclass your competition you might as well assume that there are going to be some times when you lose and lose and lose again for a significant amount of time. If you don't have the pad in your bankroll to absorb these losses (and the humility to drop down if need be) you'll likely go bust. I think you are on the right track and Hachkc makes some good points.

The bet the pot articles are pretty good, and you can also check out the twoplustwo forums, as well as the pokertracker.com forums. I think a big use for pokertracker is looking at hands such as 99-JJ, KJ-KQs, AT-AQ, and finding leaks. These are hands that you will frequently be playing, but they are often difficult to play. If you focus on your stats you may find that you have some leaks with marginal hands that is affecting your bottom line.