[TheMightyJim2k]

Ok I feel like I could definitely benefit from a running thread discussion small stakes limit hold'em. My main interest in is others observations about online strategy including but not limited to table selection, preflop hand req, postflop play specifically with one pair or overs, and full ring vs. 6 max. I know I can find a lot out on 2+2, but I get a little tired of hearing the same self-righteous posters tell me the same **** thread after thread. While they may be good players their discussion pales in comparison to what I get through CT.

I also would love to get some discussion going relating to SSHE by Ed Miller. I would like to know who is trying to really absorb and put into play this book (I have read it 2 times and am still working on it) and what they have taken away from it. I read a lot of Ed's articles online and check out the forum at 2+2 a lot so I figure I will post up links that I find interesting as well.

Finally I have begun using PokerTracker significantly over the last month and I am trying to take advantage of its information to the fullest. I was hoping that some PT vets could share their wisdom, or newbies like me could bounce ideas back and forth.

That is the summary of what I am looking for in this thread and hopefully a few of you are interested enough we can get this going. First topic of interest coming in next post....

[TheMightyJim2k]

So here is the first thing I noticed the other night when looking at my PT stats. I need to check it further but I am trying to figure out how.

I want to know how much money I am making with single pair hands that I go to the showdown with. I am trying to figure out whether I am overvaluing pairs in full ring games. I am going to try to filter it to get this stat when I get home from work, but if anyone has looked at this before maybe they can explain how to do it first.

I was also hoping that some other people might share their stats in this department. I feel like overplaying single pair hands may be a leak in my game but I'm not sure...

[TheMightyJim2k]

well I can turn this into a blog if need be ,

I checked my own numbers and when I remove folded hands and I find that I am winning with a pair about 41% of the time at the showdown. My overall win% at the showdown is 52%.

I only have about 5K of hands in the last couple of weeks in PT but I am winning a little under 2BB/100 hands which I feel is a decent number.

Anyway hopefully this discussion will get going, or I'll just turn it into my own bulletin board to check my progress in the long run.

[smoore]

Yeah, def. sounds like you're overvaluing pocket pairs. I'm assuming your PT stats are for pocket pairs and not just any pair you take to showdown?

As I've been learning NLHE lately I've re-learned that pairs aren't all that in limit. Literally, NO SET, NO BET. Now, if you're holding 99 and the flop comes 678, obviously you want to continue (maybe even raise) but other than that, ditch those things on the flop.

Basically, unless you can get 5 normal players in the hand, perhaps 3 if two of them are super-loose and you can rely on them calling a raised turn...

you have no business even calling with pairs smaller than 99. You need odds and in LHE you get your odds with callers. In NLHE you have implied odds when your 66 flops AK6 so you can take most pairs for most raises to the flop.

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by TheMightyJim2k

well I can turn this into a blog if need be ,

I checked my own numbers and when I remove folded hands and I find that I am winning with a pair about 41% of the time at the showdown. My overall win% at the showdown is 52%.

I only have about 5K of hands in the last couple of weeks in PT but I am winning a little under 2BB/100 hands which I feel is a decent number.

Anyway hopefully this discussion will get going, or I'll just turn it into my own bulletin board to check my progress in the long run.

When I do the same, I am winning 55.88% of the time when I go to the showdown with a single pair. So, you might be overvaluing a single pair a little bit. I'm not an expert, though, so my numbers could be out of line and yours are normal.

I also checked my stats for when I start with a pocket pair. My W$SD number is 61.67%, so obviously I don't get too crazy with my smaller pocket pairs.

[yeltzen]

I think my biggest problem lately is playing too aggressive on the flop and possibly on the turn. I might be playing totally correctly and just in a slump, but I think I'm being way too aggressive with hands like this:

TT in the BB. 4 callers, I raise, everyone calls.

Flop is 4c Jh 8c. It's checked around to the button, who bets. Now, I think to myself that this guy could bet with anything: a pair of 8s, a flush draw, a pocket pair of 9s. So, I raise, figuring this is the best way to eliminate opponents. Well, it works, but the button reraises. So, now I don't know what to do. I call, miss the turn, check and fold. I don't really know how else to play it.

This middle-pair stuff has been happening a lot. I think I'm trying a little too hard. I'm trying to push really small edges instead of waiting for bigger edges. Not that you shouldn't push small edges, but this one is very small/marginal.

[smoore]

I easily check TT in the BB with only four callers. Put six in there and I raise it 100%.

oh yeah, if he really can bet with anything, just take him to 4-town. Lead the turn.

[Big Mike]

I would raise the TT from the BB there nearly every time. You almost certainly have an EV advantage with four opponents.
If you raised, why was it checked around to the button? You have to lead again here. Checking because there is an overcard is pretty weak. Your opponent might have the J but a lot of small stakes players will raise and reraise with a flush draw on the flop, especially if it looks like you raised with AK/AQ and missed the flop.

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

I would raise the TT from the BB there nearly every time. You almost certainly have an EV advantage with four opponents.
If you raised, why was it checked around to the button? You have to lead again here. Checking because there is an overcard is pretty weak. Your opponent might have the J but a lot of small stakes players will raise and reraise with a flush draw on the flop, especially if it looks like you raised with AK/AQ and missed the flop.

I checked in the hopes that the button would bet (SSHE players have a tendency to bet from the button when checked to no matter what). I could then raise and eliminate people. Betting out on the flop accomplishes nothing - anyone with a draw and/or pair is getting the odds to call. A bet can't protect my hand. A check-raise can.

[yeltzen]

LMFAO... and in one hand of 6-Max $1/2, I make more than I've made in an entire month playing .25/.50. Nice.


PokerStars Game #6385355497: Hold'em Limit ($1/$2) - 2006/09/23 - 00:01:10 (ET)
Table 'Mnemosyne' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: yeltzen ($54.50 in chips)
Seat 2: TMMA ($23.50 in chips)
Seat 3: chongcn ($49.25 in chips)
Seat 4: rkejpoker ($57.75 in chips)
Silva200311 will be allowed to play after the button
yeltzen: posts small blind $0.50
TMMA: posts big blind $1

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to yeltzen [Ks Ts]
chongcn: folds
rkejpoker: calls $1
yeltzen: raises $1 to $2
TMMA: calls $1
rkejpoker: calls $1

*** FLOP *** [Jc Ah Qs]
yeltzen: bets $1
TMMA: raises $1 to $2
rkejpoker: calls $2
yeltzen: calls $1

*** TURN *** [Jc Ah Qs] [5h]
yeltzen: checks
TMMA: bets $2
rkejpoker: calls $2
yeltzen: raises $2 to $4
TMMA: raises $2 to $6
rkejpoker: calls $4
yeltzen: raises $2 to $8
Betting is capped
TMMA: calls $2
rkejpoker: calls $2

*** RIVER *** [Jc Ah Qs 5h] [2s]
yeltzen: bets $2
TMMA: raises $2 to $4
rkejpoker: calls $4
yeltzen: raises $2 to $6
TMMA: calls $2
rkejpoker: calls $2

*** SHOW DOWN ***
yeltzen: shows [Ks Ts] (a straight, Ten to Ace)
TMMA: mucks hand
rkejpoker: mucks hand
yeltzen collected $53 from pot

*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $54 | Rake $1
Board [Jc Ah Qs 5h 2s]
Seat 1: yeltzen (small blind) showed [Ks Ts] and won ($53) with a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 2: TMMA (big blind) mucked [Ac 2c]
Seat 3: chongcn folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: rkejpoker (button) mucked [Js 9d]