[jomamma87]

i've played in a few online tournaments lately and have been stuck in a really odd spot preflop with queens early in the tournament twice in a row. hopefully you guys can help me figure this out after i give you the details...

the blinds are still relatively low in the tournament, 25-50 or something like that with the starting stacks at 1500. a guy in second position raises up to 150, i'm sitting in middle position with QQ. i decide to not slow play a hand like this with so many people acting after me, so i re-raise to 500. as soon as the action gets back to the initial raiser, he goes all in for the rest of my chips (he started the hand with about the same number of chips as me, right at the initial starting stack). i'm left wondering, does he have AA, KK, JJ, or maybe pocket 10's. he could also have AK or AQ. i decide to call, and both times my opponent has shown AK and won the race.

now, i'm not blaming luck, i know it was a coin flip preflop both times. i'm just wondering if i made the right decision. the question is should i be folding a hand as good as QQ preflop? or early in the tournament should i just lay down in case i am against an overpair?

[bigjohn]

Early in a tourney i'd say go all in with QQ... Later it would come down to stack size and reads ...

[hachkc]

It depends.

With QQ and a raiser in front of you, it comes down to your read on the person. With QQ, you are ahead of everyhand but AA and KK and against AK you are 56/44. In the situations you described earlier, a call PF and bet/raise on the flop may have won the pot and if an A or K hits the flop, you get off cheap. Reraising with QQ or less PF is always tricky and IMHO is really dependent on knowing the bettor and such as well as position. Folding QQ pf is usually something I only do against a raise and reraise before I'm to act and even then it can be dependent on the players. As with anything in tournaments, the answer depends on the players stacks, blinds, tournament position, etc.

Also, calling with QQ PF is not slowplaying in my book.

gl

[Colquhoun]

One of the things that I have ben trying to do lately is not get in too many races early on in a tourney, instead using tight aggresive play and trying to outplay opponents after the flop. However, the hands you describe as possiblites are correct, and with not enough hands to get a real read on him, you still should be ahead in odds. Of the other possible pocket pairs, you have half of them beat, and are in a race against AKs...and you have oods against AKos and are way ahead of AQ. I would have called the all-in as well. I may have had a harder time calling an all-in with AKos this early...but probably would anyway. If it is a low-entry tourney, I have seen much worse hands go all-in early on.

[Quads]

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you are willing to risk 1/3 of your stack on a reraise with QQ, then putting the rest of your chips in should be a no brainer to a reraise behind you.

Rather than not slow playing it, which I agree with, what's wrong with a cold call of the 150, or possibly two betting the 150 and making it 300? I'm struggling to understand how 500 was your choice, (1/3 of your stack) and then calling off the rest becomes an issue. I like the 500 bet, I just don't understand the later.

I can see (very easily) folding it preflop if the action comes to you with a raise and a reraise, but not when you open the pot.

The other issue this may come down to is just a different style and basis of personal play.

I also don't understand making moves in tourneys when the blinds are 75 chips. It's an empty pot.

One last thing to remember and keep in mind. You got your chips in with the better hand both times (if it was QQ v. AK) and were simply outdrawn. Unfortunately, that will happen. It sucks, but it happens. You just have to keep digging.

[A-Ro]

From my experience. If an initial raiser gets raised, then goes over the top of that you're looking at AA, KK, and sometimes AK.

If you don't have one of those hands anyway I don't like the initial re-raise. Simply because with QQ or below you would be at best about 50-50.

In my opinion, if you're willing to re-raise a hand you had better be prepared to put all your chips in the pot for the very reason of what happened to you.

[hachkc]

Reraising with QQ is fine sometimes unless you assume the only hands folks raise with are AA, KK or AK. If the player is tight and raises in EP, I may just call. While a looser player raising here means I reraise and hope he folds or reraises; a call here just sucks as he could be slowplaying AA heads up or have T9s.

In most cases, I'll probably reraise with QQ in position.

[jmc]

Now that you know they like to come over the top w/ AK, my personal preference is to call w/ position with QQ and make sure a A or K doesn't flop.

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by jomamma87

i've played in a few online tournaments lately and have been stuck in a really odd spot preflop with queens early in the tournament twice in a row. hopefully you guys can help me figure this out after i give you the details...

the blinds are still relatively low in the tournament, 25-50 or something like that with the starting stacks at 1500. a guy in second position raises up to 150, i'm sitting in middle position with QQ. i decide to not slow play a hand like this with so many people acting after me, so i re-raise to 500. as soon as the action gets back to the initial raiser, he goes all in for the rest of my chips (he started the hand with about the same number of chips as me, right at the initial starting stack). i'm left wondering, does he have AA, KK, JJ, or maybe pocket 10's. he could also have AK or AQ. i decide to call, and both times my opponent has shown AK and won the race.

now, i'm not blaming luck, i know it was a coin flip preflop both times. i'm just wondering if i made the right decision. the question is should i be folding a hand as good as QQ preflop? or early in the tournament should i just lay down in case i am against an overpair?

I know people don't care for TJ Cloutier much, but his famous quote about this situation is that "the third raise means aces or kings". I've found it to be true more often than not. Now, it wasn't right in this situation, but you were still only a little over 50% to win the hand. I dunno, I think with QQ really early in the tournament, I'm willing to gamble to try and get a quick double up. If I bust, oh well, I didn't waste much time. Once the blinds go up, I would probably fold to a third raise, unless I had a boatload of chips and could afford to race.

I think you made the right play considering the situation. Very early in the tournament, a chance to double up, and you know that donks love to jam the pot with AK and AQ.

Once the blinds are up a few levels, you may even want to consider just calling the initial raise. It's a "weak" play, and you shouldn't do it in EP, but the big re-raise is basically committing yourself to the pot. If the flop comes A K 2, you are probably in trouble, and can get away from it, sure. But if it comes K 8 2, now what do you do? You made a huge reraise, are you just going to try and check it down? That's really weak. Are you going to be aggressive with a continuation bet that basically is going all in? If they raise you, what are you going to do? If you just call preflop, you can take a look at the flop and go from there. You don't have to feel obligated to get all of your chips in like you do when you make a huge reraise.

There's lots of ways to play it, but I'd say AK, QQ, and JJ are everyone's favorite hands to go broke with. There's 2398720384 ways to play them, and you typically either double up or bust.

[TheMightyJim2k]

yeltzen
while I am by no means an authority, and somewhat agree on the Cloutier quote, I don't agree with one part of your conclusion.

I think while the blinds are low you should consider cold calling preflop and watch the action after the flop. If it comes down free of overs you have a significantly better hand than you did pf. You are now a 3-1 favorite over AK and 5-1 favorite over AQ or lower. If the bettor leads into you and he is not squeaky tight you should probably just move in. If they have AA or KK so be it...you got the cooler on the hand and it happens.

However later in the tourney when the blinds are high I am moving with this hand pf. You aren't going to get to see too many more hands if you don't double up in the fast online blind structures, and QQ is a great hand. If you have to race for all of your chips so be it. It is better than getting blinded to death. Also late in the tourney a third raise pf does not mean AA or KK because players lower their standards as the blinds go up.

I think early in the tourney is the time to cold-call with the QQ and play after the flop, when you still have a stack and losing this hand won't be then end for you.

Late in the tourney you have to turn up the aggression as the blinds increase and starting hand reqs get lower. You should make a large reraise pf with QQ and if they pop it again just move in. If you are beat so be it, you can't wait around for AA or KK you'll get blinded to death.

but my NL tourney results are pretty break-even, so I could be totally wrong...