[noelsarchs]

When I saw this title, I thought I wrote it.

I've lost with QQ over the past few months EVERY time I've had the hand. I've been knocked out of two CT tourney's with it, and on one day, 3 SNG tables in the space of 4 consecutive hands! Then the very next day, 2 hands, 2 SNG tourneys and QQ busted again.

Now, I will got back and read all the posts prior to this one to see what everyone is saying.

[smoore]

At the low levels of MTT on 'stars push this hand hard EVERY TIME. You played the one described in one correct way. You have great cards, an unknown opponent and a chance to double through.

Later in the tournament, I'm a fan of cold-calling raises with hands like this. He's going to have a tough time calling a big bet if his AK whiffs. A check-raise is usually either a bluff or a set (top pair usually leads out), I decide my percentages with what info I have on this opponent. There is always a chance that he is check-raising with top pair or a largeish underpair on a board like A54 though so weigh that also. That happens to be one of my favorite moves when I have the opponent very covered (less than 1/4 of my stack) and am OOP.

Most of my MTT success has come in tournaments where I have 5k at the first break, when the blinds are going to 75/150 after the break ('stars tournaments). Without that 5k you're seriously hampered in strategy options.

So my opinion is to always take these early races and when you bust, you bust.

Note, I only play up to $22 tournaments.

[TheMightyJim2k]

I guess I just dont understand the logic of the reraise with 1/3 of your stack with very little in the pot. You are likely only getting action from hands that are either ahead or a coinflip.

So lets say you raise to 500, and the other guy calls. and the flop comes Kxx what do you do? If he bets you probably just have to lay it down, if he checks and you bet you are once again only getting action if you are behind, and you are going to have to move in because the pot is already 1K.

If you are going to reraise with this hand pf you might as well just push. At least that way you don't make any really big mistakes on the flop.

I think when determining whether or not to reraise you have to decide what you will do after the reraise. In this case I don't think you ever get the most EV by reraising but you make your postflop play decisions very very difficult. If you flat call you are going to be able to pick off an AK continuation bet on a low board so you improve your EV. If donkeys also want to come into the hand you can blast them out of the pot if no overs flop because this is NL people. NL is a game for blasting drawing hands out on the flop, and if the donkeys want to chase let em. You'll win a boatload of chips most of the time.

If you have to raise I guess the min raise is your best option, but then its back to the old what do I do if they push behind?

anyway enough rambling...I know all of the experts say raise or fold, but the best players also say that their is a time for calling, and I think this is it.

[smoore]

yeah, he could just call but what happens behind him? I don't want to let ANYONE in behind me with some weak ace. Early rounds in 'stars low-stake tournaments are donk-fests, plain and simple. Lots of them call with ANY ace.

Basically, in this situation I *want* to race. I just have to figure out how to get my stack in there. Now, if I know he has AK, I know he will call if I push. But what if he has 66? He's not neccesarily going to call if I push, so I can't push 100%.

OK, here's how I see these:
1) I want my stack in the middle PF
2) Anything worse than AK might fold if I push
3) AK is going to probably 3bet me

All of these signs point towards making that 500-600 type raise. Go ahead and commit yourself, just don't tell him that by pushing. Normally, he will do it for you. Lots of hands can also call that 500-600 (not profitably but that's what we like), including hands we are FIRMLY ahead of. Once we know we're commited (remember, they don't think like us) we know that NO MATTER WHAT comes on the flop, we're putting our stack in.

I don't care if it's an AKx flop, if I don't know my opponent, I'm pushing. Screw it, there's another one signing up RIGHT NOW

[kayos]

Originally Posted by smoore

Screw it, there's another one signing up RIGHT NOW

LOL, that's why I hate you guys. QQ is worth a reraise amd a call of all in early, especially in smaller stakes tourney's. Your raise was a little high, but it didn't matter, because you had to commit anyway. If you had raised to 300-400 and the opponent just called, you could get away if an A or K flops. Check out my recent thread with the same type of frustration.

http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/poker-...out-later.html

I found out this fact: play the same way that has made you win in the past, just keep in mind poker is FULL of luck! Just look at Mr. Gold (en shower). Best of luck...and I do mean luck!!!

[smoore]

uh, it's not my hand.

In the same sentence you say you hate my playing style yet repeat what I would do when in the situation? If you want to debate, pick a view and argue it.

The raise you advocate is weak. Anyone who folds to it should be buddylisted. FE is a big part of QQ preflop.

edit: oh yeah, it's YOU. I posted in that thread but quickly wrote you off as a newbie who didn't want advice, just wanted to vent a bad beat story. My ROI is strong, I disbelieve you are cashing in 35% of MTT's.

[kayos]

Originally Posted by smoore

uh, it's not my hand.

In the same sentence you say you hate my playing style yet repeat what I would do when in the situation? If you want to debate, pick a view and argue it.

Yes, there are times I would agree with you, but what I hate (and expressed it) is the opinion "there's one starting in a few minutes". Note the LOL next to it! That opinion is frustrating to someone in it for the long haul. I am not actually mad at you at all, friend, just that opinion.

Originally Posted by smoore

The raise you advocate is weak. Anyone who folds to it should be buddylisted. FE is a big part of QQ preflop.

Yes, the raise is weak, but lets you get away from the hand after the flop, or make a big pot if he doesn't catch and continuation bets.

Originally Posted by smoore

edit: oh yeah, it's YOU. I posted in that thread but quickly wrote you off as a newbie who didn't want advice, just wanted to vent a bad beat story. My ROI is strong, I disbelieve you are cashing in 35% of MTT's.

Now this is my favorite part of the whole thing. It sounds like maybe YOU are becoming the bitter one. Relax, pal. Yes, I did want advice and no I don't really care if you believe my cash % or not. At all. Have a good day. But then again I bet that is hard for you to do. I bet over 35% of your days are not good.

On a final thought, please add me to your buddy list. Don't like my play? Again, I don't care. I just wanted advice and you disrespected me. You think I just wanted to vent? Well, that should be OK, too. But no need to reply then and tell me how great you are and bad I am. Just looking for constructive critisism. I thought that's what this community was all about. But that seems to be changing. Thanks..............

[yeltzen]

Ooohhh Burn!!!

[smoore]

uh oh, pick-apart quote.

I apologize. I thought you were LOLing *at* me. Misunderstanding.

If you are ITM 35% that'd put your ROI somewhere above 300%, possibly over 400% and that makes you much better than me.

[TheMightyJim2k]

nah cashing in 35% doesnt even mean that you are making money.

$11 SNG, say you play 100 of them....

cost: $1100
cash in 35%
say 10% 1st - 10% 2nd - 15% third....

10x$50 + 10x$30 + 15x$20 = $1100 breakeven

so cashing in 35% of SNG is very reasonable for an average breakeven player.