[kayos]

Ok poker masters out there. I keep running into the same problem. I am wondering of this is because I play online (usually for $20 single and multy table tourneys) and the blinds are so fast, or because I just suck.
I usually do very well inthe beginning of the tournaments and am quite often the big stack in the beginning of the game. However, by the end it is always an all in fest and I often lose due to calling or getting blinded out. My play doesn't change much because everyone calls online....Same for huge multi tourneys. The blinds get so big I feel like I have to make huge plays to stay in and the damn luck factor takes over. Suggestions?

[smoore]

Originally Posted by kayos

My play doesn't change much

This is probably the root of the problem.

From what I gather, you're a LAG player. Those are the guys that can amass a big stack early. Learning how to manage that stack is the next step.

Without specific examples it's hard to give specific advice.

[OnTheButton]

Originally Posted by kayos

Ok poker masters out there. I keep running into the same problem. I am wondering of this is because I play online (usually for $20 single and multy table tourneys) and the blinds are so fast, or because I just suck.
I usually do very well inthe beginning of the tournaments and am quite often the big stack in the beginning of the game. However, by the end it is always an all in fest and I often lose due to calling or getting blinded out. My play doesn't change much because everyone calls online....Same for huge multi tourneys. The blinds get so big I feel like I have to make huge plays to stay in and the damn luck factor takes over. Suggestions?

One thing to try to keep in mind when you are the big stack (I had to find a way to do this myself) is try not to equate making a call based on how many chips you have, but instead continue to make the same calculations and decisions that got you the big stacks in the first place.

Once you've got those stacks, hold onto them for dear life. Don't give them away easily.

One comment a player made about my wife at our last tournament was a huge compliment.

He was contemplating making a call to her re-raise after the flop, and was pretty sure he was in a coin flip situation, or perhaps down to a kicker.

He thought for a moment and laid down his cards saying, "If I lose, I'll never get those chips back from her."

That's the image you want to have.

And when the all-in fests start, just sit back and let it roll.

Last night I was in a $4/180 player MTT on P*'s and was barely hanging by a thread in about 25th place of 25 players left.

The bubble paid at 18th place.

There was a huge amount of action while I sat back and folded, and low and behold, I'm now in 18th of 18, and 7 players that had 10X more chips than me got busted out while I sat back and watched.

I didn't last much longer, and was tempted to get in on the action, but unless I've got a solid hand to gamble with, I'd rather get blinded out than toss in my remaining chips because I have one face card.

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by kayos

Ok poker masters out there. I keep running into the same problem. I am wondering of this is because I play online (usually for $20 single and multy table tourneys) and the blinds are so fast, or because I just suck.
I usually do very well inthe beginning of the tournaments and am quite often the big stack in the beginning of the game. However, by the end it is always an all in fest and I often lose due to calling or getting blinded out. My play doesn't change much because everyone calls online....Same for huge multi tourneys. The blinds get so big I feel like I have to make huge plays to stay in and the damn luck factor takes over. Suggestions?

Sounds like you play very loose and you keep playing this way. Saying stuff like "everyone calls online" makes me think you haven't been playing poker very long. When the blinds get bigger, you need to focus on winning chips without seeing flops.

[kayos]

Originally Posted by yeltzen

Sounds like you play very loose and you keep playing this way. Saying stuff like "everyone calls online" makes me think you haven't been playing poker very long. When the blinds get bigger, you need to focus on winning chips without seeing flops.

Well, as hard as it is to listen to someone with that avatar (lol), I have about 8 years serious playing for money under my belt. I am sure you all feel the same way online vs. brick and mortar casinos, that people call and think "well, if I'm beat, I can just buy into another tourney in 10 seconds". That sentiment "when the blinds get bigger you have to win befor ethe flops" gets me into my first problem......how can I win chips before the flop when no matter what you raise, people call with crap. AK? Never good without flopping a pair. AQ? Someone slow playing a set or high pair. I have not made a deposit in my account in 2 years and bought in for $150. Not to brag, but I want you guys to take me a little serious and I am trying to get my game to that next level. I cash in about 35% of my games and stay out of the cash games because I hate the huge swings.

Yes, I am a LAG, but only when it is a good play. I never make huge bluffs with nothing but sack (I've learned that one) and play solid, with small bluffs. I don't "play very loose and keep playing this way". Really what am I supposed to do? I am thinking this is just how poker goes...
Here are some examples to ponder:
1. I have QQ in BB. Middle position raises, I reraise, middle goes all in (like usual) I call, he has AK. I hate racing, why do people do that crap?
2. I have AK clubs with 6K in chips, blinds 125/250 ante 25. 2 calls before me and I raise to 1000. Both players and the BB call. One of the players has me covered (did you catch 4 people now in the pot???). It's like they don't care. Flop Q,J,3 rainbow. There is no reason even to trhy a continuation here......Maybe I am just ranting and need to go with the flow more, but I am outplaying these guys and they just are drinking beer giving away money. They're not going to win, they are just going to take some chips from people and pass them around on the way out.

[smoore]

post hands I guess.

I don't see how a LAG hates racing. weird.

[yeltzen]

Well, I could probably type a 6 page post here, but I'll try not to.

First, I'm not trying to make it sound like you don't know what you're talking about. I'm just saying that online beginners are usually the ones that say "the call with anythings how can I beat them?" Maybe you just haven't been playing tournament poker that long or have never taken an in-depth look at it? I don't know. Whatever the case may be, you have to lose the "it's impossible to beat players who don't care" mentality, or you'll never win.

Sure, the players online make a lot of craptastic plays and it sucks when you make a good call and they get lucky. Example today: a guy puts all of his chips in with JTs, I call with AJs, he hits two pair and wins. It sucks, but there's nothing I can do once the chips are in. I made the right play. In a cash game, I buy back in and stack the dummy later on. In a tournament, crappy players can do better because when a good player suffers a suckout, their game is over. On the other hand, the bad player can now afford to make one of their classic mistakes because they have doubled their stack.

In any event, when you find players like this, you just go into value bet mode. Don't make continuation bets - just bet when you have something. If they never fold, then use that to your advantage and have them pay off your good hands.

Winning chips before the flop basically means that, when the blinds start getting high relative to the stacks, you need to start raising lighter than usual in an effort to get the blinds. You don't have to get crazy, but you definitely have to start loosening up your hand requirements a little bit. If you just wait for AK or QQ or whatever, you can forget about it. You shouldn't be raising light with J3o or 97o or anything like that, but K9 and QT become raising hands.

If you can't win chips before the pot because the players always call, then you just have to start pushing preflop (depending on the blinds/stacks). If raising will cripple you if someone calls and wins the hand, then you might need to consider going into "all-in or fold" mode preflop. It's a crappy way to play poker, but it might be necessary until you have enough chips to play normal.

As for racing... if you hate racing, then stop playing NL Hold'em tournaments. 9,999,999 out of 10,000,000 tournaments, you're gonna have to win a key race if you want to cash. That's just how it is. You have to be willing to take some gambles in that department. I had a real hard time learning that, but I have now. Look at your pot odds if you have to consider a call. If you're getting 2-to-1 and you think it's a race, pretty much call every time (except in some bizarre situations).

[kayos]

Well, thanks for your time, Yeltzen. I appreciate the thoughts...but the fact is....I just don't agree with racing very much. I think that races are definitely a necessary evil, but it depends on the stack you are racing against and the amount of respect/bad players at your table. If you have been killing the table, there is no reason to race. If you are in second place and the chip leader wants a race, why? I do like your thoughts on light raising with worse hands..I'll try that! Thanks again!

[yeltzen]

I'm not sayin you have to race just to race. But, if you're getting good pot odds, then there really isn't a reason not to, except in really specific situations (i.e. one or two players until the money, etc). If you can only race against stacks smaller than you, well, you're going to do pretty well. But that doesn't mean you should completely avoid bigger stacks. They'll catch on to this and push at you every time.

[kayos]

Yes, I hear you. Like you said, you could write a 6 page paper on this one, and I could too. Just looking for some new good plays for when I have a stack at the beginning and want to stay ahead as the blinds go up and the pots are bigger.