[smoore]

OK, from the discussion in my other omaha thread it's pretty obvious I'm clueless.

So... from what I understand about O8 starting hand strategy:

All four cards should work together, or work together in groups of twos.
You usually want an A2.
You like double suited aces. Double suited kings go WAY down in value.
Large wraps are good.
Small wraps are somewhat good.
Middle card hands (including wraps) should always be discarded.

I understand a wrap to be a four-straight hand, sometimes with one gap. Is this correct?

Are A3s hands playable as long as the other two have some connection? How about A4s? How about offsuit?

How do these hands change in value in the context of differen't stakes at 'stars? How do they change in value when you move from limit to PL to NL?

Also, how is Omaha played in casinos? Limit, PL, NL? Does this change as the stakes change?

Thanks in advance.

[dad604]

Let me start the ball rolling with some observations, then others can add.

1. The difference between holes cards in O8 is a lot smaller than in holdem. In holdem AA is way ahead of any other cards but gap between the top O8 hand of AA23 ds and other hands is much smaller.

2. Big card combo are good, small card combo are good, middle card combo are bad. The game is hi/lo not hi/mid/lo.

3. With 4 hole cards, it is not just double the combination over 2 hole cards but 6 times. Therefore the flop usually hits you somewhat but it is not good to play loose. (That is why novice like it, with almost any card, they see something on the flop)

4. The advantage an expert player over a decent lower skill player in O8 is much less than in holdem.

5. Raising at O8 is usually for value and not as much for other reasons as in holdem, ie, free card, thinning field, for infomation.

[hachkc]

Here is another resource:

http://www.thepokerforum.com/omahahilosystem.htm

The O8 section at 2+2 isn't too bad but I haven't followed it much lately.

As for casino's, I've never seen or heard of anything other than limit being hosted as a regular table but my experience is fairly limited. There are about 1/2 dozen or so casino's in LV that play it but I believe they are all limit and I think most are Kill games. Orleans 4/8 (Kill or Half Kill), Mirage (5/10 Kill), Bellagio (10/20), Wynn (20/40)

As for the differences between Limit/NL/PL, here are my thoughts:

1. AAxx hands are more profitable in PL/NL but play best heads up or 3 handed at most. Pot it PF with position (rarely UTG or UTG+1) and pot most safe flops. If anyone calls your flop bet, you may be in trouble though. Pretty much anyone that makes a big raise PF is screaming AAxx or at worst A2s.

2. Bluffing in O8 is hard to do requires some decent knowledge of your opponent. Bluffing in Limit is usually worthless but bluffing in NL/PL is slightly easier. Usually my successful bluffs all come with the nut flush blocked as I hold a naked A.

3. Quartering in Limit isn't too bad with some dead money in the pot; quartering in PL/NL can be a killer. Basically, non-nut lows are more playable in limit than PL/NL.

4. Personally, I believe counterfeit protection on the nut low is more important in PL/NL than Limit.

[w16227]

Originally Posted by dad604

4. The advantage an expert player over lower skill player in O8 is much less than in holdem.

No time for a long strategy post right now- but this is deserves a comment.

A player knowing the basics of decent starting hand strategies and when to bet/raise/fold has a HUGE advantage over the fish. The comment here is based on expert play (lets say Matasau as this is one of his strongest games) vs me or Hach - as we are knowlegable in the game. Put us at the same cash game with the mouth, Annie Duke and Fishmam (all very strong O8 players), and one of us might just break even or be ahead - especially, if you make it a full table with some fish thrown in. Play that same table NLHE - and we are likely toast unless we hit huge cards. Put us at a table with loose action players, and we will clean up.

It is pretty easy to spot the games that you want to be in - any that have 50% or more players seeing the flop (60%+ is better) is an indiactor of a juicy game.

You may not have an accunt there - but Pacific is a good place to learn. They have the cheater text - listing your current high/low hand for cash games (most other sites show this at play money only).

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by hachkc

[url]2. Bluffing in O8 is hard to do requires some decent knowledge of your opponent. Bluffing in Limit is usually worthless but bluffing in NL/PL is slightly easier. Usually my successful bluffs all come with the nut flush blocked as I hold a naked A on a high only pot or a flop with 1 low card.

Should have added, don't trying bluffing a split pot or a flop that that has 2 to a low. The only pots you can bluff at are high only pots.

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by w16227

A player knowing the basics of decent starting hand strategies and when to bet/raise/fold has a HUGE advantage over the fish. The comment here is based on expert play (lets say Matasau as this is one of his strongest games) vs me or Hach - as we are knowlegable in the game.

I'm flattered.

[dad604]

PL Omaha both hi/lo and hi only are very common and popular in Europe. At our local B&M's in the Vancouver area, the River Rock offers PL omaha.

[Poboy]

Originally Posted by w16227

No time for a long strategy post right now- but this is deserves a comment.

A player knowing the basics of decent starting hand strategies and when to bet/raise/fold has a HUGE advantage over the fish.

Agreed. If you're good at it, O8 has the lowest variance.

[smoore]

Originally Posted by Poboy

Agreed. If you're good at it, O8 has the lowest variance.

This is why I want to learn it... good for when your 'roll takes a hit. Go play O8 for awhile instead of the mandatory "move down".

Plus, I think it's time I learned how to play everything. With 'stars upcoming mixed games... those should be a gold mine.

[dad604]

Actually, O8 has a higher variance, it just seems lower due to the fact that play is slower.

Smoore that is exactly what I do, play another game when holdem (my main game now) is running bad. I am also learning 7CS. Lately, I have been taking some heavy hits at HE, so I have switch to O8, also I have just begin to experiment with PL O8 last couple of month too.