[smoore]

Saw Flop | Saw Turn | Saw River | Saw Showdown | Won

PokerStars Game #5821507470: Omaha Hi/Lo Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/08/06 - 18:08:12 (ET)
Table 'Arachne' 10-max Seat #2 is the button

MP4 - $4.60
Button - $52
SB - $9.50
BB - $35.95
UTG - $15.40
UTG+1 - $54.10
HERO - $21.35
MP2 - $24.10
MP3 - $14.85

PREFLOP ($0.50/$1.00)
HERO is MP1 with J T K J
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, HERO calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 calls $0.50, 1 fold, MP4 calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, SB calls $0.25, BB checks.

FLOP $4.00 (7 players)
6 Q 8
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets $0.50, HERO calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 calls $0.50, MP4 calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, 1 fold, BB calls $0.50.

TURN $7.50 (6 players)
6 Q 8 9
BB checks, UTG+1 bets $1, HERO raises $1 to $2, MP2 calls $2, 1 fold, MP4 calls $2, Button calls $2, BB calls $2, UTG+1 calls $1.

My thinking was that with that double suited board, I'm obv up against flush draws. HOWEVER, with all the callers I'm probably up against MULTIPLE flush draws, cutting down thier outs.

Good play or chip spewing?

[jojobinks]

i like it. i don't understand why you called the flop bet though.

[D3scride]

Fold on the flop.

[smoore]

Oh wait... the converter butchered it... that's not the right board. I'll fix.

Oh, whoops. That was the right flop.

I dunno why I called the flop bet either. I guess I'm a donkey.

[hachkc]

Preflop
The call here is ok assuming the table is relatively passive and you expect it to be a multiway pot as you are OOP. You have an ok hi only which plays best multiway. The hand is easy to get away from if the flop misses you.

Flop
Fold. You have a gutshot str8 draw on a board with a flush draw and low draw. I can't imagine you have much equity here.

Turn
Your here now and your gutshot hit so play it and hope for the best. I'd probably simply just check/call it though as I can't believe you are much of a favorite here but I could be wrong.

[mreich]

I'd say you are chip spewing. it's tough to get away from a straight, but O8 is different from what many of us have grown accustomed to (playing Texas hold'em) in that a straight is almost a minimum hand and not a good hand. Or consider that your hand won't improve, is likely to be split and can be beat, and your goal in H/L is always the scoop.

Assume an As2s-xx has ~36% at the nut low, ~20% to the nut flush. Now if the other cards in that hand include a queen and (6,8 or 9) there is %20 for a boat)

Let's break it down
If the river is a:
A,2,3,4,5,7 - all 24 split the pot with low; 12 of them hit the flush
6,8,9,Q - no low, 4 make the flush, all 16 offer a boat
10 - 2 make a flush, not real likely to match your straight but possible
J - 1 makes the flush,
K - 2 make the flush, another good option

44 cards left,
24 of them split the pot at a minimum
21 make a flush
16 present the boat as a concern
and even the best 8 possibilities could split your high by equalling your straight.

I know this sounds extremely tight, and it is, but in the loose, lowlimit online games, tight is what will payoff because of the number of 'gamblers' who love to see the river. Pot limit can help you eliminate people, but most are willing to call "1 more bet" in limit poker.

Yes, with this many live hands, you are up against multiple flush draws and that changes the numbers a bit, but over half the deck splits your pot; however, double flush draw, doubles the bad cards for you. For that matter, 4 of the cards can hit a flush and it will still lose. Now, change just one card, if you have Ks instead of Kh then I would bet away, I probalby would have even raised the flop with that.

Feel free to criticize my answer, or even rip it apart. I appreciate the feedback to improve my game.

[hachkc]

Very good analysis but how would you have played each street differently?

Also, assuming he called the flop bet (worst play IMHO), how would you have played the turn?

Just curious to hear someone else's opinion.

[smoore]

Originally Posted by hachkc

Also, assuming he called the flop bet (worst play IMHO)

Oh sure, just RUB IT IN!

[mreich]

I would have dumped at the flop myself. My analysis tells me that the hand is dangerous enough that I would have only seen the river for free. So, I would have folded after the bet on the turn.

This is the problem with drawing to marginal hands in any game, but becomes more prominent in O8. In this case, he hit his gutshot with no chance for improvement and too many chances to split and lose. I am not good at the exact math, but I don't think the pot odds are there to call at the flop, turn or river. With these hole cards want a flop ofa J or KT; with only one low or at least 2 hearts preferably Ah so you are drawing to the nut flush. I might have read this somewhere or just come to the cnclusion myself, 'moreso than any other game, Omaha is a game of the nuts' or damn close to it, and the Q high straight while currently the nuts is too easily beaten.

[w16227]

Originally Posted by smoore

Saw Flop | Saw Turn | Saw River | Saw Showdown | Won

PokerStars Game #5821507470: Omaha Hi/Lo Limit ($0.50/$1.00) - 2006/08/06 - 18:08:12 (ET)
Table 'Arachne' 10-max Seat #2 is the button

MP4 - $4.60
Button - $52
SB - $9.50
BB - $35.95
UTG - $15.40
UTG+1 - $54.10
HERO - $21.35
MP2 - $24.10
MP3 - $14.85

PREFLOP ($0.50/$1.00)
HERO is MP1 with J T K J
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, HERO calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 calls $0.50, 1 fold, MP4 calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, SB calls $0.25, BB checks.

FLOP $4.00 (7 players)
6 Q 8
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets $0.50, HERO calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 calls $0.50, MP4 calls $0.50, Button calls $0.50, 1 fold, BB calls $0.50.

TURN $7.50 (6 players)
6 Q 8 9
BB checks, UTG+1 bets $1, HERO raises $1 to $2, MP2 calls $2, 1 fold, MP4 calls $2, Button calls $2, BB calls $2, UTG+1 calls $1.

My thinking was that with that double suited board, I'm obv up against flush draws. HOWEVER, with all the callers I'm probably up against MULTIPLE flush draws, cutting down thier outs.

Good play or chip spewing?

PF - call is not bad if you can reasonably expect no raisers after you.

Flop = fold.

Turn - you have nut straight - and maintain that if counterfeited. The raise is tough because of the double flush draw (ROOT FOR RED). The raise is probably a 50-50 thing here. It is good - beacuse you are making the low draws pay. Since there is a good chance you will split the pot, this builds up the $$ to be won. Bad - because of the flush draws. At low limits there is little chance of anone folding a baby flush. At higher limits (or better players) your raise may have driven out a non-nut flush draw with a poor low.

Me - I would have just called with your position on the turn. Punish on the river - or hope that you can see it cheap if the flush draw hits.