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08-05-2006, 05:58 AM
|  | World Series Champ | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The People's Republic of California Age: 94
Posts: 3,171
Chips: 3,424 | | | Open Ended, do you value bet? In your own personal style / game, do you bet an open ended straight on the flop?
4 players in the pot, you hold 7/8s
Flop comes 5/6/K RB
Check, check check to you.
You're on the button, and you raised preflop 3X the blind and get 3 customers.
What's your move? | 
08-05-2006, 06:49 AM
|  | Big Stack | | Join Date: May 2006 Location: Riverview, Fl Age: 36
Posts: 1,060
Chips: 870 | | | Re: Open Ended, do you value bet? My play would be to check... Reason being I have not made a hand at this point and my preflop raise gets the action checked around to me. This is a great opportunity to where i want to see a free card. Odds are someone called the preflop raise with a King. If you bet here and get reraised then what?
__________________ No one can MAKE anyone do ANYTHING. All we can ever do is make it easier or harder for people to make certain choices! | 
08-05-2006, 07:21 AM
|  | Creativity Alliance | | Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SWEDEN
Posts: 2,264
Chips: 2,987 | | | Re: Open Ended, do you value bet? I would have check if I the other players where knowned to reraise. In other case I would valuebet and maby take the pot right there. 3 people check so they probably do not have the King. (but you never know). If someone calls my raise I have that input if I hits 7 or 8 on the turn.
I would have call my raise a semi bluff since I have outs but not a hand when I bet. I usually try to take the pot on the spot if other players show weekness. + I never like give free cards to checkers.
I think that the stacks should infuence as well. Am I strong or week? And what is my table image right now. Can I afford to lose this bet?
If in a tourny, do others afford to call my bet? and so on.... | 
08-05-2006, 07:26 AM
|  | World Series Champ | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The People's Republic of California Age: 94
Posts: 3,171
Chips: 3,424 | | | Re: Open Ended, do you value bet? Cash game. All players in the pot have ~equal stacks. | 
08-05-2006, 07:34 AM
|  | Creativity Alliance | | Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SWEDEN
Posts: 2,264
Chips: 2,987 | | | Re: Open Ended, do you value bet? Well in that case I would have raise and try to take the pot on the spot. I play semitight agresive so when I get the chance to steel I usually do. I lead out and bet in this pot and the 3:d and 4:th caller might just call for pot odds. They would have belive me to have the Kings.
If one of the player was a reraiser I might just check. But I dont see them call if I hit the straight later on. | 
08-05-2006, 07:34 AM
|  | ChipTalk.net Article Writer | | Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 2,161
Chips: 2,456 | | | Re: Open Ended, do you value bet? In NL, I take the free card.
__________________
'So we go adjust the flow and everybody should know, but in case it erase remember me tell you so, No matter how we scatter in different lands you have turn and learn and try understand'- Tony Rebel
The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad.
--James Madison
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08-05-2006, 07:35 AM
|  | Creativity Alliance | | Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: SWEDEN
Posts: 2,264
Chips: 2,987 | | | Re: Open Ended, do you value bet? If I wasnt on the bottom I would check. | 
08-05-2006, 08:10 AM
|  | Surfaced Warrior / Mod | | Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Starboard Bridge-Wing Age: 36
Posts: 5,365
Chips: 12,759 | | | Re: Open Ended, do you value bet? I would mix it up depending upon my position and knowledge of my opponents - probably 40% raise and 60% check unless I am certain no check raises are likely. If I bet, I would go about 2/3's the pot in hopes of stealing but allowing myself plenty of outs with two cards to come in case someone gets froggy. If check raised I might come over the top, but would likely just call to see what comes on the turn.
__________________
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - Norman Schwartzkopf
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08-05-2006, 09:00 AM
|  | Final Table | | Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Huntsville Age: 40
Posts: 566
Chips: 3,610 | | | Re: Open Ended, do you value bet? I would bet here about twice as often as checking. The only thing you really can't handle here is a huge raise from someone who checked it to you. If you pick up the pot right here - fine. If you get a caller or 2 - possibly even better. A bet there with callers means you stand to win a very big pot if the straight comes - your hand in now very well disguised. If it doesn't come you can still pick up the pot later, as you have represented the K with your preflop raise and post-flop bet. Not too hard to put you on AK there. Tough to put any of the players before you on AK since they did not raise or reraise preflop - most people dont slowplay AK. KQ is much more likely for one of the villians. | 
08-05-2006, 10:22 AM
|  | ChipTalk.net Article Writer | | Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 2,161
Chips: 2,456 | | | Re: Open Ended, do you value bet? Stack size relative to blinds is pretty important here.
Let's say the big blind is $1. There's $12 in the pot on the flop. You bet 2/3rds, or $8. Pot's $20. Now someone raises $16. You're getting 2 1/4 to 1. It's a pretty sure thing more money is going in on the turn. Now what?
I don't really like a semibluff raise with so many opponents in NL. Limit it's an easy bet.
On the other hand, if you take a free card and make the straight, someone with a K is probably going to bet. If not, someone may think you're stealing when you bet. If you take it down, nobody had much anyway and you weren't likely to get paid off on the flop either. If you don't turn the straight, you can fold to a bet, or bet out if it's checked to you. Then if you get check raised, it's an easy fold.
__________________
'So we go adjust the flow and everybody should know, but in case it erase remember me tell you so, No matter how we scatter in different lands you have turn and learn and try understand'- Tony Rebel
The loss of liberty at home is to be charged to the provisions against danger, real or imagined, from abroad.
--James Madison
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