[RaiderJoe40]

I think the pot odds were in my favor, but when I whiff, Im crippled...was this a bad chase?

PokerStars Game #5705436918: Tournament #28816350, $10+$1 Hold'em No Limit - Level III (25/50) - 2006/07/27 - 22:07:03 (ET)
Table '28816350 5' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: megabit88 (2000 in chips)
Seat 2: adrake5 (1455 in chips)
Seat 3: JURAJ (1845 in chips)
Seat 4: Philly14 (780 in chips)
Seat 6: Samhain1022 (1855 in chips)
Seat 7: Etched (2065 in chips)
Seat 8: RaiderJoe40 (1865 in chips)
Seat 9: ratatosk (1510 in chips)
ratatosk: posts small blind 25
megabit88: posts big blind 50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to RaiderJoe40 [Ks Js]
adrake5: folds
JURAJ: folds
Philly14: folds
Samhain1022: folds
Etched: folds
RaiderJoe40: raises 100 to 150
ratatosk: calls 125
megabit88 said, "lots of chips now"
megabit88: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [Td 6d Qs]
ratatosk: checks
megabit88: bets 350
RaiderJoe40: calls 350
ratatosk: calls 350
*** TURN *** [Td 6d Qs] [7s]
ratatosk: checks
megabit88: bets 500
RaiderJoe40: calls 500
ratatosk: folds
*** RIVER *** [Td 6d Qs 7s] [5d]
megabit88: checks
RaiderJoe40: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
megabit88: shows [9c Qc] (a pair of Queens)
RaiderJoe40: mucks hand
megabit88 collected 2500 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 2500 | Rake 0
Board [Td 6d Qs 7s 5d]
Seat 1: megabit88 (big blind) showed [9c Qc] and won (2500) with a pair of Queens
Seat 2: adrake5 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: JURAJ folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Philly14 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: Samhain1022 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Etched folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: RaiderJoe40 (button) mucked [Ks Js]
Seat 9: ratatosk (small blind) folded on the Turn

open ended after the flop, add the King high flush draw after the turn....bad play?.........thoughts on an all in after the 3rd diamond hit?
I figure he has to call with his queen and my small 685 or so all in.......thoughts?

[MSPatton]

Pot odds are misleading in a tourney.

If you are a 3:1 dog getting 4:1 on your money you will bust out 3 out of 4
tourneys.

Personally, tourneys are about survival during the first 2/3 of the event.

After the flop you were getting 2 1/2 on your call and you have to figure the
same bet or higher is coming on 4th ST. For me that's commiting 1/2 or
more of my stack with 8 outs. I don't play odds, I play more of a "feel"
game and $350 on the turn tells me to fold or push not call. The push there
at least has some teeth behind it. But hey, I knew the outcome before I
had to make a decision.

Me, I fold on the flop

[jojobinks]

yeah, too passive. the flop call isn't horrible, although i prefer a raise (or a fold). but on the turn...you have to make a real decision. calling and seeing what happens doesn't wash.

i respectfully disagree with our fine sponsor in the previous post. the CT tourny generally goes three hours. if you aren't doubled up in the first hour you're in bad shape. and if you don't have 10k going into the third hour (generally the start of the FT), then you have no room to move.

surviving is the way to have consistent top half finishes (you can fold to the top 40% just by clicking sit out next hand). but to win, you need to be aggressive with the best of it.

[MSPatton]

JoJo,

You are most likely correct about the CT tourney. I have not played in a long
time and have basically retired from online play.

I play a regular 32 person tourney with a $40 buy and my style works for me
I have won once in the last eight, but have cashed 7 of 8 (top 6) for an
increase in my roll of $1300+. This is what matters to me. Maybe I just got too
many in this game that watch the hyper aggressive WPT and their cut up
show of only conflict hands that think that's the way poker is played, not the
take a little here and a little there and one big one an hour until the FT when
the real fun begins.

Myself, I never consider calling a pot sized raise knowing I'm behind and chasing
will send me home 3 out of 4 times. Poker for me is a job, not an adventure.

I do agree, either be aggressive or get out of the way, you learn little if
anything by just calling

[yeltzen]

If you're gonna call that turn bet, you may as well push. I bet he would have folded.
There's no reason to cripple yourself like that. You flopped a big draw and turned a bigger draw. His bets are saying, "I really really don't want you to see the next card." It's a good time to push.

[smoore]

Originally Posted by yeltzen

If you're gonna call that turn bet, you may as well push. I bet he would have folded.
There's no reason to cripple yourself like that. You flopped a big draw and turned a bigger draw. His bets are saying, "I really really don't want you to see the next card." It's a good time to push.

Quoted for truthiness. I can't find a fold and I hate to call. That means I raise

[Poboy]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

yeah, too passive. i prefer a raise (or a fold).

'Zactly. Especially against megabit.

[bolgenmod]

I think you guys are forgetting something in your analysis -- on the flop and turn, raiderjoe is not just playing against mega: I am also in the pot. I can't speak for joe or mega, but I know the fact that this was a three-way pot influenced my actions.

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by bolgenmod

I think you guys are forgetting something in your analysis -- on the flop and turn, raiderjoe is not just playing against mega: I am also in the pot. I can't speak for joe or mega, but I know the fact that this was a three-way pot influenced my actions.

Actually, that's one of the main reasons for a push on the turn.

[RaiderJoe40]

Originally Posted by yeltzen

If you're gonna call that turn bet, you may as well push. I bet he would have folded.
There's no reason to cripple yourself like that. You flopped a big draw and turned a bigger draw. His bets are saying, "I really really don't want you to see the next card." It's a good time to push.

This is probably why when I do make a FT that Im usually sitting on a short stack...personaly my style of play is more of a fold than a raise after this flop. but after thinking/reading about it, calling and not folding or raising, is a pretty big hole in my game that needs to be fixed

thanks for the input fellas/ladies