[Captn_All_In]

Okay so mainly I play in $20 or less small NLHE tournies.

So last week I kind of got fed up with how I have been playing and decided to really, really tighten up playing against the drunk fish I see week in and week out winning with complete crap.

Anyways, in an 18 player T1500 I end up the chip leader as I took down some better [insert solid non drunk] players, then when the tables merged I end up out in 4th, call me the bubble boy.

My main problem was when I would be in late, position or in a blind and I would see 5-6 guys limp into the pot; I look down at my cards and see AQs, AKo, or a medium pair. I would make a raise of 5-7 times the blind and all of them would call, with at least one of them being forced to go all in. Eventaully the cards would get turned over and I would end up on the short end of the stick. Two pair beats my pocket pair, suckouts with runner-runner flushes and straights, blah, blah, blah.

It seemed as though I could never force some of them out of the pot. My goal was to play AK, AQ, or medium pairs against 1-2 players instead of 5+.

Was my thinking here incorrect? If I don't play these hands, what kind of hands should I be playing against them? Any suggestions?


Thanks,

Captn

[CaptLego]

If there's already 5 or 6 limpers, then your LP raise of 5-7 BB is giving the first caller 2:1, and better odds for the follow-on calls. If you want to isolate in that game, it sounds like a pot-sized bet won't do it. You'll probably have to raise 2x or 3x the pot.

[Slagar]

Make them decide whether they want to risk all of their chips. When they kept calling, you should have stopped raising so much, maybe lower it to 3xBB or even just limp. See the flop, then if you hit it, go about pushing them around. Don't waste your chips trying to make them fold when they obviously aren't going to.

[PFunk]

With a hand like this, you might consider just calling here in situations like these, and see a flop...If your hand hits, u put the pressure on then, if it misses, dump it...you werent invested, and its not worth it...Against 7-8 other players you are probably in bad shape.

A hand like AK or AQ is still a drawing hand, and inexperienced, or bad players, often wont even raise preflop alot with good hands that have this already beat, they play opposite cuz they think that is how poker is played...They will raise with junk, and limp in or cold call with a huge hand....Even though ur AK looks good, its very likely you are already beat...especially if the flop doesnt yield an Ace or a KIng....You cannot get bad players to lay down hands very easily.

When playing against less experienced players, in tournaments particularly, I think it is best to limp in alot of pots...The idea of course is to make the better decisions on post flop play, and win pots there with actually having a hand....Bad players love to just play, and they will call with lots of crap just to do so, and it can be hard to put them on a hand.....

Play only very strong hands...Dump all those K 10 off suits, and J 9's, Q 10's etc. in early position...If you play them, limp..if you miss...fold it if faced with a bet or raise if you bet....Limp in alot, and only raise with premium hands....Once they figure out your style, they will be fearful of you, which is what you want...then you can switch gears back n forth.

Probably not telling you anything you haven't heard, but just thought id offer some of my cents.....It is harder for me to play against bad players then it is good ones, not that I consider myself great or anything...just far more conscious and studied then half the fields in small buy-in online events, and it can be frustrating to lose to incompetent players, so I understand ur pain....Lots of patience, waiting, and steam control is needed to win.


P.

[jojobinks]

standard raise rule of thumb:

3x bb + (number of limpers X BB)

with 0 limpers behind you, you should raise 3x
with 5 limpers behind you, you should raise to 8X

but that's just a rule of thumb. with AK, what you really want is to get headsup or take the pot down. you need to ask yourself what sized bet is going to accomplish that?

if no size bet is going to get these guys to fold, you can...

1. make the bet you made and treat it like a value bet
2. you can limp and play the flop accordingly
3. or you can push and gambool.

[PFunk]

I'd just like to point out that AK is the most overplayed hand in Hold'em....Its a drawing hand a personal non-favorite of mine-



P.

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by PFunk

I'd just like to point out that AK is the most overplayed hand in Hold'em....Its a drawing hand a personal non-favorite of mine-



P.

just for the record, how many hands in holdem aren't drawing hands? 2 or 3? just wondering...

[PFunk]

Well, if you want to speak technically, every hand is a drawing hand in my opinion....But AK is just a big high hand, a "drawing" hand preflop...Pocket 10's is a "made hand".

But again, technically, every hand is a drawing hand....AK is just the most overplayed in my opinion-


P.

[smoore]

In NLHE, *especially* tournaments, AK is NOT a drawing hand. It's a solid heads-up hand. It's the kind of hand that does NOT play well multiway. If you can't get the pot HU then don't go off with it. AK is foldable after the flop.

The misplays usually come postflop, "Oh crap, I called half my stack, now I'm commited, I might as well open-push." AK is a bad hand to pull a stop-n-go with.

AK is best served preflop, one part opponent and lightly seasoned with AQ.

edit: oh yeah, sorry Capt. You need to isolate people with powerhouse hands like those, find the bets that do this with your crowd... if it's "all-in"... well, that IS your name.

sounds like you're losing a lot of value by not playing more speculative hands for small bets preflop, letting them develop into top two or better and then spanking a donkey or two. You should play more connectors in position and probably play any pair for 3x from any position. If the game plays like I think it does from the description you're getting 8:1 implied EVERY flop.

[Captn_All_In]

Hey guys this is some good stuff. I really appreciate it. If you don't mind I am going to sleep on the recommendations/thoughts you made, then make another post kind of summing up what was offered, just to make sure I have interpreted your advice correctly.

Thanks,

Captn