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03-26-2006, 11:54 AM
| | On the Bubble | | Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Seattle Age: 30
Posts: 62
Chips: 120 | | | Raise or Call I'm playing in a 13 person NL Hold 'em tournament. Stacks start at 3000 chips. There are 6 people left at my table. The table is super passive. Usually 3+ people to the flop. No one except me has raised pre-flop. I'm second in chips with 5950. The chip leader has 6200. Blinds are 100-200. The chip leader is the big blind. She is loose and passive and has limped with basically any two cards. She has rarely raised post flop. She just called a giant bet with a set of 6's with a board of 6-10-J-Q-K. The small blind is another loose passive player (plays any ace any king or any two suited cards). I'm UTG + 1.
UTG folds. I'm dealt Ah-Qh and I make it 700 to go. Folded to the blinds. Both blinds call after much deliberation.
Flop is Jh-10s-4c. It's checked to me. Generally with over cards I'm going to make a continuation bet no matter what here. With the two overcards, the backdoor flush, and the inside straight, I actually feel pretty good. I make it 1000 to go. The small blind folds. The big blind thinks for about a minute and then calls.
Turn is 10c. She checks to me. I'm happy to take a free card here and the river is Kh. She bets 1000 in to me.
What do you do here? What kind of hand do you put her on? | 
03-26-2006, 12:06 PM
|  | Surfaced Warrior / Mod | | Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Starboard Bridge-Wing Age: 36
Posts: 5,362
Chips: 12,507 | | | Re: Raise or Call If you are determined to show down, I would only call in an effort to lose the least amount of money if I am beaten. If the bet you are facing is a bluff you stand to win with Ace high by calling, but if your opponent has anything I don't see raising here accomplishing anything other than setting yourself up to lose more money.
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Last edited by Wylecoyo : 03-26-2006 at 12:20 PM.
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03-26-2006, 12:14 PM
| | In the Money | | Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 433
Chips: 457 | | | Re: Raise or Call call.
that way you can figure out what she is doing and how she is playing, and how you can trap her on another hand.
Don't loose anymore money on this hand... | 
03-26-2006, 01:12 PM
|  | ChipTalk.net Article Writer | | Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 2,149
Chips: 2,445 | | | Re: Raise or Call You guys realize Sooner has Broadway, right? Based on your previous observations, her hand could be anywhere from two pair to a full house.
Still, I don't like when super passive players bet into me. I'd probably raise because in the hands of a superpassive, she would probably bet the turn with fullhouse .
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03-26-2006, 03:25 PM
|  | Poker Spellcaster | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: NLHE cash table Age: 39
Posts: 1,243
Chips: 13,756 | | | Re: Raise or Call Think about the reasonable range of hands that she might have here, based on the way this was played, and the result:
Hands she's likely to have --
AK - you win
AQ - tie
AT - you win
KJ - you win
KT - you lose (My guess as the most likely hand)
QT - you win
JT - you lose (My guess as the second most likely hand)
Hands she's less likely to have --
AJ - you win
T9 - you win
JJ - you lose
TT - you lose
KK - you lose
I call these 'less likely' because she'd probably re-raise with the PPs, and probably wouldn't bet the AJ on the river or call PF with T9. But I'm making assumptions about her play, which may be off the mark.
1000 to win about 5100 -- I would reluctantly call. | 
03-26-2006, 03:39 PM
|  | World Series Champ | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lakewood, CO Age: 37
Posts: 4,834
Chips: 1,861 | | | Re: Raise or Call Call.
I can't raise here, I think she was trapping on the turn with the river donkbet. I can't fold since I have broadway and she may be doing this with trips.
I think we're beat but I have to call getting over 5:1.
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03-26-2006, 04:32 PM
|  | Poker Nerd (and Admin) | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: bottom pair and a flush draw Age: 35
Posts: 10,596
Chips: 17,166 | | | Re: Raise or Call don't raise for reasons previously mentioned. i play with some similar players...in the most extreme case i'd fold here 100% of the time.
so i guess the question is: "exactly how rarely is she aggressive?" i have at least one player in my home game that would NEVER bet here without a boat.
so, eh, i'd call with all but the most clear reads, but wouldn't raise ever against this type of player. | 
03-26-2006, 09:15 PM
|  | Final Table | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 941
Chips: 840 | | | Re: Raise or Call i doubt she just flat called on the flop with JT (top two). usually when inexperienced players pause, it's because they're not sure they should call, not whether they should raise. KT is the only hand i really fear in this spot.
i have to call here though. given how the hand played, it seems just as likely that she's holding QT or KJ here, and just doesn't see (or isn't afraid of) the broadway. she could also have Q9, and you'll wish you'd have pushed.
she called a big bet prior when any ace had her beat. if you raise and she comes over the top of you, i'm not sure you've learned anything else about her hand.
perhaps i'm underestimating her, but i think you're probably 60/40 or better to win the pot, but it will cost you dearly if you're behind. if she's got KT, you pretty much have to pay her off getting 5:1.
gw- | 
03-27-2006, 12:44 AM
|  | World Series Champ | | Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: The People's Republic of California Age: 93
Posts: 3,146
Chips: 3,406 | | | Re: Raise or Call My hunch is she has a 10 or top two with A/J or something of the like.
You make the joint on the river, she hangs around to the turn to make her hand. Raise the pot. | 
03-27-2006, 04:05 PM
|  | World Series Champ | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Lakewood, CO Age: 37
Posts: 4,834
Chips: 1,861 | | | Re: Raise or Call I don't see truly passive players donkbet with less than trips and I'm afraid we're behind a FH here. Against a normal player I can raise but not an uber-passive.
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