[SeattleSooner]

I'm still having an internal debate with myself as to whether I made the right move in this situation.

I'm at the final table of a three table league tournament. Blinds are at 2000-4000. The next level will be in less than five minutes and jump to 5000-10000. I have a very tight image at the table. I've only really played three pots and won all three (except for where I've folded after the flop while in the big blind). I've shown down pocket kings (all-in before the flop), A-K (all in after a flop of K-K-Q, and pocket 2's after hitting trips on the flop. The payout structure is like this:

1st – 30,000 league points + $20
2nd – 15,000 league points + $10
3rd – 10,000 league points
4th – 8,000 league points
5th – 6,000 league points
6th – 5,000 league points
7th – 4,000 league points
8th – 3,000 league points
9th – 2,000 league points
10th – 1,000 league points

Here is what the table looks like:

SB: Hero - 11,000
BB: 4,000 (loose aggressive)
UTG: 15,500 (loose aggressive)
UTG+1: 4,000 (loose passive)
UTG+2: 16,000 (tight aggressive)
Cutoff: 8,000 (loose passive)
Button: 16,500 (loose passive)

BB is all-in in the dark. UTG calls. UTG+1 calls all-in. UTG+2 calls. Cutoff folds. Button calls. I look down at Ac-7d. Normally I'd throw this away in this position. But I'm getting 11-1 to call, so I make the call. Flop comes 8c-4c-2c. I check. I'm hoping it gets checked around as is often the case when there are all-ins. UTG goes all in. UTG+2 folds. Button calls. At this point the pot is 47,000 of which I can win 38,000. I'm getting over 5-1 to call. I seriously consider folding. Best case scenario if I fold is that three players get knocked out and I'm short stacked in fourth place. In that case, I'd really have to catch good cards to finish better than 3rd. Worst case scenario if I call is that I go out in sixth place. Best case scenario is a very commanding chip lead and pretty much a guarantee of finishing first or second. I figure at worst I'm up against a made flush, but I still have outs to win. I could also be up against straight draws, two pair, trips, an over pair, or simply overcards. There is a chance (albeit slim) that my ace is still an out. I have a backdoor straight draw and the nut flush draw so I call. Right move?

Since you are probably curious here is how the rest of the hand played out:

BB: 2d-4h
UTG: Jc-10c
UTG+1: 6h-6s
Button: Ks-Kc

Turn is 10d. River is 4s. SB wins 20,000 with a full house. UTG wins 27,000 with the flush. I'm out in 6th place. I was actually surprised when the cards got turned over. I think if the Button had raised all in before the flop he probably could have pushed everyone but the two all-ins out. After the flop I think everyone played the hand about right.

[jojobinks]

bad tourny play. it's too important to not bust.

on the flop, i like the call, drawing to the nuts. you have 9 nut outs, plus about 1 out total to the BD straight draw and maybe 1 out for the A. so you have 11 outs, or 40% ish to take the pot.

the problem is that 60% of the time you bust, which is why the preflop call is pretty bad, IMO.

don't take this as a personal attack, but i find pot odds (when the call is a substantial portion of your stack) preflop in multiway pots to be mostly used as a rationalization for questionable plays.

with allin, headsup play, it's a different story. but in this case, i don't know how you make that call in good conscience.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I probably would have folded preflop despite the odds with all that action already and hope that at least 1 or 2 and maybe even 3 people go broke there. Since you did play it, I think you made the right call. You were getting 5-1 and you're 4-1 to catch a club. I'd rather take my chances there knowing that I will have a monster stack if it works out. Fold and you're just going to have to get lucky somewhere else real quick.

Those blinds are brutal! Highest M at the table is <3! And soon to go WAY down. Talk about an all-in fest. Was it a strange night or something? I can't believe there were still 7 active players at that level.

[Slagar]

I would have folded pre-flop.

[SeattleSooner]

I'm not a big fan of the blind structure they have. It's okay early. But then we jump from 200-400 to 500-1000. And then the massive jump from 2000-4000 to 5000-10000. The final table is an all-in fest pretty quickly. I've played in about 10 games in the league, I've never failed to make the final table, but have come to realize that once you are there; you are just depending on luck to survive.

Last night was a little weird. The table I started at was playing super tight and aggressive early. The director came over and told us he was bringing over everyone for the final table and we still had 7 players left at ours. Generally by the time the blinds are at the 2000-4000 level there are less than 5 people remaining.

The short stakes kept catching lucky cards to stay in. Big stacks holding aces got cracked twice by all-in small stacks at the final table.

When I made the pre-flop call, I thought it might be bad. This is the first tournament I'd played in about 2 weeks, I've been sticking to cash games lately. The main reason I made it though, was that I've developed a habit of getting blinded out in these things. The previous five times I've played I've finished fourth. I figure I catch a lucky flop and I've got the good chance to win.

If only I hadn't been in a blind, or the button had played his hand right! Of course I probably would have finished fourth again that way.

I think playing out of the small blind is the weakest area of my game. Especially in tournaments. Very often I know that the BB isn't raising and I'm going to get great pot odds to call, so I have a very hard time laying down a mediocre hand.

[SpaceMonkey]

With the high blinds and ridiculously small stacks, I fold practically blind in this scenario. There's 7 people left, no one with an M greater than 4.

If I were to play the hand, I would have just pushed pre-flop.

[Slagar]

I played in a small (10 person) tournament yesterday with really fast blinds:
10/20
25/50
50/100
100/200
and it just doubles from there. 15 minute blinds starting stacks of 1500, by the time it ended, the blinds were 1,600/3,200 and there was only a total of 15,000 chips in play. I didn't make the blind structure because I was only told that I would be the only TD there half an hour before the start. I will be fixing it for next time.

[Poboy]

Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff

I probably would have folded preflop despite the odds with all that action already and hope that at least 1 or 2 and maybe even 3 people go broke there. Since you did play it, I think you made the right call. You were getting 5-1 and you're 4-1 to catch a club.

I agree that folding PF was the best play, given the structure and where you'll stand when hopefully at least one all-in gets knocked out.

However, you do not have the odds on the flop if you put someone on the made flush. Then you'd have 7 outs, or 6:1. With implieds fully realized, you'd need better than 6:1 for this play to make money.

[SeattleSooner]

I was getting close to 6:1... like 5.5:1. Close enough to gamble. But I'm also the kind of guy who would call with A-K knowing my opponent had Queens. If it's a close call, I'm willing to gamble to try to increase my odds of winning.

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by SeattleSooner

I was getting close to 6:1... like 5.5:1. Close enough to gamble. But I'm also the kind of guy who would call with A-K knowing my opponent had Queens. If it's a close call, I'm willing to gamble to try to increase my odds of winning.

well in that situation, at least you know you're 40% or so to win.

in this case, you're in against 5 opponents with a7. isn't that just a mite different?