[SeattleSooner]

Okay, help me out here. Did I do something completely stupid or what?

Full ten handed NL Hold'em cash game. Blinds $.01/$.02. (Yes I'm a high roller) I'm on the button. UTG and I both have stacks of about $10. Everyone else is between $.50 and $3. I don't have a read on anyone, but the game is very loose and passive. I'm dealt 7c-6c.

UTG raises to $.08. 2 people call. I call. Small blind and big blind both call. 6 people see the flop. $.24 in the pot. I know my call was questionable, but I was pretty sure the two blinds would call giving me great odds to see a flop.

Flop comes 8c-9c-10s. Both blinds check. UTG check. There is a bet of $.10 and a fold. I make it $.35. Both blinds fold. UTG bets all-in and another fold to me. Do you call or fold here?

[yeltzen]

It's pretty suspicious when someone goes all in and way overbets the pot.
I would say you have a very good chance of having the best hand and, if the guy has J7 or QJ, you have a redraw as long as he doesn't have QcJc. I don't know too many people that will raise with J7 or QJ... especially if they're aware of the 4xBB rule (most know-nothings would make it 5 or 10 cents). My guess is he has AA-JJ and doesn't want to give up a flush. I'd call. This is one of those situations mentioned in SuperSystem and HoH where you can't be afraid that you're up against the absolute nuts just because he went all in.

[SeattleSooner]

I did call. Making the same logical conclusion you did. Of course, I should have remembered how my wife plays poker. She just love to check raise all-in when she has the nuts. (only because she like pushing all her chips into the pot)

I figured since he made a logical raise (4 x BB) he probably had an over pair or had hit trips and was protecting against flush and straight draws. Q-J is not exactly a hand to raise UTG with.

Of course he did have Q-J, I didn't hit my club and he won the pot. If I hadn't been up $15 for the day, I would have been quite upset.

[hachkc]

Originally Posted by SeattleSooner

I figured since he made a logical raise (4 x BB) he probably had an over pair or had hit trips and was protecting against flush and straight draws. Q-J is not exactly a hand to raise UTG with.

Of course he did have Q-J, I didn't hit my club and he won the pot. If I hadn't been up $15 for the day, I would have been quite upset.

Big stack making his presence felt. If he's gonna play, might as well make everyone else pay to see a flop.

The one clue here is the fact he raised PF UTG and then checked the flop. Personally, I would have expected a continuation bet at this point from him to see where things are at.

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by hachkc

Big stack making his presence felt. If he's gonna play, might as well make everyone else pay to see a flop.

The one clue here is the fact he raised PF UTG and then checked the flop. Personally, I would have expected a continuation bet at this point from him to see where things are at.

Yeah, I missed that. I thought the PFR bet and the hero raised it. The check after the flop is something to worry about.

[plz]

Originally Posted by SeattleSooner

Okay, help me out here. Did I do something completely stupid or what?

Full ten handed NL Hold'em cash game. Blinds $.01/$.02. (Yes I'm a high roller) I'm on the button. UTG and I both have stacks of about $10. Everyone else is between $.50 and $3. I don't have a read on anyone, but the game is very loose and passive. I'm dealt 7c-6c.

UTG raises to $.08. 2 people call. I call. Small blind and big blind both call. 6 people see the flop. $.24 in the pot. I know my call was questionable, but I was pretty sure the two blinds would call giving me great odds to see a flop.

Flop comes 8c-9c-10s. Both blinds check. UTG check. There is a bet of $.10 and a fold. I make it $.35. Both blinds fold. UTG bets all-in and another fold to me. Do you call or fold here?

"I know my call was questionable"

Not true. You have an absolutely perfect hand for a button call - suited connectors with at least 6 people seeing the flop. This is an idea situation for your hand.

"UTG bets all-in and another fold to me. Do you call or fold here?"

OK, here's one analysis of the situation: The most logical reason for an all-in check raise is that UTG has the current best hand and doesn't want to see a flush come on the turn or river. In other words, UTG has QJ with no clubs. By my calculation, there is about $11 in the pot after the all-in check raise. You have to bet about $9.50 to call, so you're getting about 1.15:1 odds (not very good odds, really). You're about 1.8:1 to catch a flush on the next two cards, which is the only way you'll win if UTG has QJ. Since the pot odds are less than the odds you need, you fold.

Note that if (for example) you give UTG a 25% chance to have an overpair, and only a 75% chance to have QJ, then you should call or even raise. If UTG has an overpair, you're a 95% probability to win so in this case your EV is = .25 * .95 + .75 * .35 = 50%, and thus you need only 1:1 pot odds to call and you're getting 1.15:1.

But the key item here is your read of UTG's hand. If you're more than 80% certain that UTG has QJ, you should fold.

[SeattleSooner]

Originally Posted by plz

"I know my call was questionable"

Not true. You have an absolutely perfect hand for a button call - suited connectors with at least 6 people seeing the flop. This is an idea situation for your hand.

The only reason I say questionable is because I still had both blinds to act after me. In a more aggressive game one of them is probably raising, making it much more expensive to see the flop. Of course, I had the game pegged as passive, so I made it.

[SpeakEasy]

Pre-flop, this hand is fine for a call in a multi-way pot. I like a hand like this in your position.

Fold to the all-in. Seems seems pretty clear that he's protecting the nuts against the flush draw now that someone has bet, and you have the wrong end of the straight. I don't like his check on the flop.