[jojobinks]

i get frustrated sometimes by these hands just the same as everyone else, but i know (thanks to my good pal poker tracker) that these hands are profitable for me.

i see a lot (here and at other boards, as well as in live games) of players complain about them, though, as though they're bad hands.

this poker strat forum has become fun in the last month or so, and lots of folks are posting interesting stuff. here's my idea:

post typical examples of heartbreakers with AK and JJ (and other hands that tend to kill you) here (or in your own thread, what do i care? ) and we'll talk 'em out.

small prediction: my experience is that often times people slowplay hands that shouldn't be slowplayed (and these two hands are good examples) and/or overplay them on flops where fastplay is not appropriate. i'm interested to see what we turn up here.

let's get it on. i'll go first; when i get home tonight i'll look for some ak and jj heartbreakers.

[Orion]

id like to stick my nose in and say that although i hate a-k, i absolutely love jacks. my favorite hand.

[tomb1]

OK, here goes one from last night as best I can remember (but I don't have the hand history with me).

SnG online
HERO get Pocket Jacks in middle position
RAISE 3x BB
2 callers -- button and BB

Flop K-x-x

HERO BETS 1/2 pot, call, call

Turn x

CHECK, check, check

River x (no str8, no flush)

HERO[/IDIOT] BETS 1/2 pot again, call, fold

Button shows his K

Quite simple hand, so whaddaya think?

[dad604]

My son and I hate pocket J's. It seem that is the hand that have knock both of us out of more tournaments than other hand.

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by tomb1

OK, here goes one from last night as best I can remember (but I don't have the hand history with me).

SnG online
HERO get Pocket Jacks in middle position
RAISE 3x BB
2 callers -- button and BB

Flop K-x-x

HERO BETS 1/2 pot, call, call

Turn x

CHECK, check, check

River x (no str8, no flush)

HERO[/IDIOT] BETS 1/2 pot again, call, fold

Button shows his K

Quite simple hand, so whaddaya think?

you know exactly what the problem is there, tom! you bet the flop to find out if you were beat. when he called, you knew you were. you bet the river anyhow...

[bdohaney]

I am still having some difficulties with AK. I am definitely getting better with it, but for a long time, I was showing a slight loss with AK on PT. Of the losses I was showing with Aks, I can see that most of them are from trying to fill the last card of a flush, and playing it too aggressively as if it were already a made hand. Aside from those mistakes, I have also seen a trend with it and AKo where I have played them as overcards too deep, even if I did have the pot odds required to draw to TPTK. As I have gone on, though, I am seeing better ways of playing it, usually raise PF, if you have a fish that wants to cap it, all the better. Usually with AK or JJ, if I raise, and get it capped back to me (need to cold call 2 more bets), if both players seem like very LAG players, I will play. If even 1 of them is tight, or even worse, TPP, I will usually fold it, barring any further reads. Ideally with either hand, I want to be up against the biggest fish, with the betting capped into the flop. With that, you have an ideal situation to either make a good deal more bets (as the fish will probably cap with you to the river regardless of his hand) or see the cards to the river with fantastic odds. The beats can and will still come, as even the worst player can get the best hand from time to time. I know, this was SUPPOSED to be a bad beat complaint thread, but I just thought I would share how I have turned the beat around. (love to hear percussion...)

Sorry. Bad pun. I know.

[jojobinks]

here's a snipped screen shot of my pt #'s for these hands.

[jojobinks]

my biggest loss with JJ (and boy, is it fishy of me). from the blogger's thingy where i ended up finishing 18th out of 5600.

Saw Flop | Saw Turn | Saw River | Saw Showdown | Won

POKERSTARS GAME #2876152375: TOURNAMENT #13081516, HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL XII (800/1600) - 2005/10/23 - 19:08:42 (ET)
Table '13081516 150' Seat #6 is the button

MstrMan - t68158
AntsAnts - t49372
Roswell - t24146
Frankinbones - t6504
DoNotTilt Button - t28178
canoeguide - t8854
jojobinks - t44302
hagbard123 - t41029

PREFLOP undefined
jojobinks is BB with J J
3 folds, Roswell raises t2400 to t4000, 3 folds, jojobinks calls t2400.

FLOP t9400 (2 players)
3 Q 4
jojobinks checks, Roswell bets t20071, jojobinks calls t20071.

TURN t49542 (2 players)
3 Q 4 A

RIVER t49542 (2 players)
3 Q 4 A T

SHOW DOWN
jojobinks shows J J
Roswell shows A Q
Roswell collected t49542 from pot

Final Pot: t49542

[tomb1]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

my biggest loss with JJ (and boy, is it fishy of me). from the blogger's thingy where i ended up finishing 18th out of 5600.

SHOW DOWN
jojobinks shows J J
Roswell shows A Q
Roswell collected t49542 from pot

Final Pot: t49542

Jojo, what would you have done differently in that situation?

[tomb1]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

you know exactly what the problem is there, tom! you bet the flop to find out if you were beat. when he called, you knew you were. you bet the river anyhow...

I know, I know. I just needed to see it again in black and white. (I can't see too well after I've smacked myself on the forehead with that frying pan...)