[Spaceman Spiff]

Just wanted to see some of the opinions out there on this. The scene: 16 man tourney, we're down to 10 in 2 tables of 5 with blinds at 200-400. Average stack is somewhere in the 5-6000 range. In the previous hand, our hero had JJ run into AA leaving him with a stack of 2400. Next hand, UTG, look down and see A9o. What's the play?

[Fins]

Originally Posted by Spaceman Spiff

Just wanted to see some of the opinions out there on this. The scene: 16 man tourney, we're down to 10 in 2 tables of 5 with blinds at 200-400. Average stack is somewhere in the 5-6000 range. In the previous hand, our hero had JJ run into AA leaving him with a stack of 2400. Next hand, UTG, look down and see A9o. What's the play?

Easy push... you have an adj M of around 2.

[snuix114]

Yeah you have about 7 times the big blind, and you are about to be on the blinds. Not much choice at this point.

[jojobinks]

with no other information, i push. but i'm a sucker for a9. see the "what hands can't you get away from" thread.

[shadesofgrey]

Five handed A9o is about 25% if everyone calls.

This is a little tough for me to push, but given this situation id push it in.

The other option is obviously pay BB/SB and sit another orbit. if I think I can get a good number of callers with the A9o push I would push it.

A9o is just about as low of a starting hand I go, but given its a 5 handed table, its not an unreasonable move.

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by shadesofgrey

Five handed A9o is about 25% if everyone calls.

This is a little tough for me to push, but given this situation id push it in.

The other option is obviously pay BB/SB and sit another orbit. if I think I can get a good number of callers with the A9o push I would push it.

A9o is just about as low of a starting hand I go, but given its a 5 handed table, its not an unreasonable move.

if everyone calls you're much worse than 25%, b/c i'd assume that even if two of your callers, are maniacs, two of them are NOT maniacs, and so you must be dominated and in a 5 way hand. if you're dominated by one player, against two maniacs with random hands, and against a 4th guy that has any pair 77+ or two braodway cards:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 12.9647 % 11.89% 01.14% { A9o }
Hand 2: 29.7557 % 28.59% 01.32% { 99+, ATs+, ATo+ }
Hand 3: 16.0757 % 15.49% 00.67% { random }
Hand 4: 16.0664 % 15.49% 00.66% { random }
Hand 5: 25.1376 % 24.33% 00.93% { 77+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

ouchie.

[CaptLego]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

if everyone calls you're much worse than 25%, b/c i'd assume that even if two of your callers, are maniacs, two of them are NOT maniacs, and so you must be dominated and in a 5 way hand. if you're dominated by one player, against two maniacs with random hands, and against a 4th guy that has any pair 77+ or two braodway cards:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 12.9647 % 11.89% 01.14% { A9o }
Hand 2: 29.7557 % 28.59% 01.32% { 99+, ATs+, ATo+ }
Hand 3: 16.0757 % 15.49% 00.67% { random }
Hand 4: 16.0664 % 15.49% 00.66% { random }
Hand 5: 25.1376 % 24.33% 00.93% { 77+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }

ouchie.

That's a big "if". Since he's UTG, he has no idea how many callers he'll get. Your table would usefull in making a calling decision if he were last to act (and there were already 4 others in the pot), but it doesn't say much about what he should do UTG.

What's surprising to me is that A9o has less equity than a random hand in this situation. I thought A9o was better than average...
Is the A9o equity compromised by the other (assumed) hands?

[Spaceman Spiff]

It wound up far worse than that! I did push figuring it was time to start playing my usual role of small stack specialist and it was time to start trying to get some blinds and hopefully get lucky and double up if possible. With 2400 to push, it's still a significant dent I could put into anyone at my table.

What I didn't expect: Player to my left calls and the player to his left (the guy who had AA to my JJ in the previous hand) pushes over the top! At this point, I'm pretty sure I'm screwed, a blind steal gone horribly wrong. Fold, fold, guy to my left calls. So we've got me with A9o, to my left with 99 (wonderful), and my nemesis wakes up with AKo (delightful!). According to cardplayer, I'm about 2% to win at that point.

It did get interesting as a 6 on the river would have given me a split with the 99, but it wasn't to be. I felt pushing was the right move given my stack and the blinds. A couple of guys in my game thought it was a tiltish push though. I don't know. I figure 8 or 9 times out of 10 there, I steal the blinds as planned and move along. With luck, someone will bust soon, we combine at 9 to the final table and I've got a little more time to see worthwhile hands to push with.

That's really the only reason I can come up with to fold a decently strong ace there. I can survive 4 more orbits (although 5 handed those could go quickly), but assuming a bustout happens, it's 9 handed and I've got time and still a decent amount of chips. I still don't feel bad about my push though. Just bad luck to run into 2 big hands.

[shadesofgrey]

Originally Posted by CaptLego

That's a big "if". Since he's UTG, he has no idea how many callers he'll get. Your table would usefull in making a calling decision if he were last to act (and there were already 4 others in the pot), but it doesn't say much about what he should do UTG.

What's surprising to me is that A9o has less equity than a random hand in this situation. I thought A9o was better than average...
Is the A9o equity compromised by the other (assumed) hands?

No straight or flush options.... unless you hit 4 cards on the board.

Yeah, if you put your opponents on ANYTHING reasonable A9o is a big underdog.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Originally Posted by shadesofgrey

No straight or flush options.... unless you hit 4 cards on the board.

Yeah, if you put your opponents on ANYTHING reasonable A9o is a big underdog.

Absolutely. It's highly unlikely that I'd call or push with A9o if someone was already in. The only time I could see doing it is if I'm close to being blinded out.

But with the first-in equity, I think pushing UTG with A9o is the way to go as opposed to folding it and waiting for something better. There aren't too many hands that even are better. And it puts the rest of the opponents to the test as to whether they want to call a still significant all-in with their potentially weaker holdings. The unfortunate part for me was having 2 of the 4 remaining players find big hands.