[SeattleSooner]

4 players left at the table, I'm the chip leader. Blinds are at $50-$100 and I'm in the big blind. Button calls (player 2), small blind calls (player 1), I look down at A4 of spades. After much deliberation decided to just call.

The flop came down 10-10-4. Player 1 bets the minimum and I'm next to act. I know that I'm going to raise, I'm just debating how much. So I announce a raise. Instantly I see the player to my left show that he's going to fold to any big raise. So I'm only worried about player 1. I know she's a loose player, but also pretty passive. She's very short stacked. Since she just called before the flop, I know she doesn't have an over pair to the board, pocket fours, or pocket tens. She tends to overplay any Ace or King so I think there's a good chance she would have made that play before the flop with Ace little or King little. Since she bet on the flop, so I don't think she has an Ace, unless it's A4. I don't think she has K10, because of her weak bet (she's not the kind of person to check raise or do fancy plays). I guess that it's probably K4. I want to make sure I'm isolated against her so I raise all in to make player 2 fold. He does. She calls me quickly and that frightens me. She of course turns over K10 and I'm drawing virtually dead. I either need two running 4's, two running Ace's, or two running spades. The next card comes out a 4, but the last is a blank.

I'm not sure how I should have played it. I could have made it about $500 to go (there was $300 in the pot) before the flop. I don't know if that would have gotten her to fold though. A good player would have folded K10 off suit there, but she over values Kings by a lot. I could have just called her bet after the flop. In that situation, player 2 probably would have made it to the turn then as well. I felt I needed to raise to drive him out. Plus in that scenerio I probably would have lost just as much money when that extra 4 came out on the turn. I guess ideally I should have called on the flop, and folded to any large bet on the turn if I didn't hit an Ace.

Any thoughts?

[Spaceman Spiff]

4 handed, KT is a pretty good hand. Your A4 is very good also. As the chip leader and catching an ace, you should've raised preflop. Use that big stack to put the pressure on.

[SandmanDC]

Hind site is always 20-20, but calling and slow playing the hand might of exposed the strength of her hand. but then the pressure would be on you to call her raise or not. It is not an easy game, but that is why we play it.

[JM]

I can't imagine you would have folded your full boat on the turn, so with her in the hand you probably would have had the same outcome. Sounds like you probably wouldn't have been able to get her off that hand preflop either. The only thing that may have helped might be if you talked to her after she bet on the flop. Something like 'you must have a 10 huh?', I bet you'd get some kind of tell out of her. Maybe a blush or squirm or laugh, something to tip you off.

[SpeakEasy]

I would just call on the flop. A bet and then a call on the flop probably would have scared the next player out -- if I were him, I would be thinking that SB or BB has at least a T or a 4, and unless I can beat the 4, I'm out.

2nd reason to just call -- if SB has a T (which she did), you're going to loose less money. No reason to make the pot instantly big on this hand by pushing. (BTW -- you don't give stack sizes, especially the SB, which prevents a better analysis of this hand.)

Alternative -- mini-raise on the flop. First, this probably drives the next player out. You say that UTG looks like he will "fold to any big raise," but you're probably over-reading this situation -- if he actually looked like he was going to fold, he probably would fold to any raise (just just a "big raise"). Second, this raise probably gives you more information. If SB folds - great. If SB calls -- danger. If SB re-raises -- you fold and lose less.

Pushing was probably the worst option, especially as chip leader. On this type of hand, by pushing as chip leader, the odds are that you are going to either (1) win a smallish pot now or (2) double someone up. The only way that pushing works in this situation is if none of the other players has a T, and someone has a 4 paired with a weaker kicker than yours AND calls all the way down.

[jojobinks]

i'm really confused by the original post, b/c, for one, i'm never that sure of a read, and i don't think most of us are. she limped in and bet the minimum on the flop. from that you suspect you've got her on a tight range of hands? i just don't buy it.

you've flopped bottom pair. any ten and you're drawing dead. An overpair to yours has you drawing to 5 outs. anything else and you've put her on a bluff (but you say she doesn't make plays).

i might call here, but i don't raise. i actually yelped when i read that you pushed here. i think it's really dumbfounding. you thought the third man was getting ready to fold. so you raise MORE than usual? if he's going to fold to a raise, you'd want to go ahead and raise less than usual, right?

there's too many ways to be beat here. i'm really aggressive on the flop, but i don't like this situation at all...

[lickmyaces]

be careful with players like player two, you said that once you announced a raise, it seemed as if he was going to instantly fold..

sometimes when someone announces a raise, and i flopped the nuts or a great hand, ill look at my hand and pick it up as if im going to toss it into the muck but one the better makes his bet ill put my cards back down, think for a little while, and then call as if he didnt bet enough

and usually they think they didnt bet enough so they go all in on the turn and they get quick calls.

be careful with your reads

as far as the K 10 v A 4, you could have put out a bet preflop but you will likely get a call anyway from the k 10, then flop comes 10 10 4, k 10 will bet, you should raise perhaps 3 x her raise, and then you can see what she does, if she raises that you should fold, if she just smooth calls, you should still fold. lol jk

[SeattleSooner]

I've been playing with this group of players for quite some time so I'm pretty confident on being able to read them pretty well.

At this point I probably had around $2500, the button had about $2000, and the small blind had $500 (after posting the blind and a the minimum raise). So when it gets to me, the pot is $400, just about any raise I make is going to put her all in.

I could tell by the button's reaction that he didn't want to call a lot of action, but he's also kind of a calling station when don't make a big bet (something I've learned to take advantage of when we are heads up). I guess the smarter play would have been to raise it to $300. He probably would have folded and she definately would have called. Of course when that 4 came out, I'm probably pushing then as well.