[littlebu]

I liked JoJo's post like this a lot and felt I learned a lot from it so I decided to do one now. I would like to hear your guy's analysis of this hand.

Background info: This hand was from a $5 +.50 Pacific $3100 gntd. 514 entered. Top 50 get paid with the real money going to 1-5. We are playing for 1st not just to make the money. Down to 117 and we're 20th in chips. No real reads as we were moved to the table 5 hands ago and only 2 hands were shown down but not from anyon in the hand. We are the small blind.
sb = $150
bb = $300

Stacks of those in the hand
Us = $5441 before posting sb
BB = $3145 before posting bb
MP = $7742
MP+1 = $1478
CO = $1680

Dealt to us Q 9

2 folds MP calls $300, MP+1 calls $300, 1 fold, CO calls $300, Button folds, We complete, BB checks

Pot : $1500

Flop comes 9 6 5

What do we do? I'll wait for some replies and then tell you what I did then we'll go to the turn etc.

[DDD424]

I'd raise 3 bb's.

[jojobinks]

i'd be interested in knowing something about our opponents. depending on what i think about them:
1) are they liable to respect my t1000 bet?
2) will they lay down top pair?
3) what do they think of me?

without knowing this and more...it's hard to say.

b/c you are almost certainly have the best hand AND the best draw, i like either playing it fast, by betting t1000, planning to reraise all-in, or by playing it fast by checking, with the intention of raising any reasonably sized bet all-in. but i do like playing it fast.

a pokerstove run against one random (bb), one loose, one superloose, and one tight opponent:
Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

4,109,318 games 23.282 secs 176,501 games/sec

Board: 9c 5s 6s
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 48.8429 % 48.59% 00.29% { Qs9s }
Hand 2: 11.6896 % 11.10% 00.60% { random }
Hand 3: 16.4871 % 16.17% 00.33% { 66+, ATs+, KQs, AJo+ }
Hand 4: 11.2933 % 11.02% 00.29% { 22+, ATs+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }
Hand 5: 11.6871 % 11.10% 00.60% { random }

edit: it sorta seems like we're only screwed if BOTH 78 AND a bigger flush draw are out there against you. otherwise we should be looking to double up here.

[littlebu]

I'm not really sure what they think of us here. That's probably part of my confusion with this hand. It's really bothering me cause I think I misplayed it the whole way through. This is only our 6th hand at the table and the first one we've played. In the five hands we've seen the table has seemed pretty passive. I don't think that they will lay top pair down. I see where you guys are coming from with the 1000. Here's the line I took.

I bet 1/3 pot $500
BB -- fold
MP -- call
MP+1-- fold
CO -- call


Pot: $3000

My thinking here was to make it look like a feeler bet to represent some overcards. I was hoping someone would raise so I could come over the top all in here. I really want to double up on this hand. No one raised So:

Turn is: A

This is great for us since we now made our flush andwe don't have to worry about someone having the A of our suit. I also see the A as great because I have a feeling we'll be able to get some value from one or both of the aces that just called our small flop bet. What's your play here?

[Spaceman Spiff]

If I could safely assume at these levels that someone is going to take a stab at it, I would probably go for the check-raise here. Like jojo said, I think it's highly likely you've got the best hand and potentially the best draw.
Even if the free card goes through, it's not the end of the world. There are still plenty of cards that could improve your hand. The worst turn card would be a non-spade over to your 9's I guess.

EDIT: This was for the post just after the flop.

[nianticcardplayer]

Check raise here there is only one card to worry about if the board is posted correctly K with another low spade. There are no house draws at this point and straight flush would have to be low because you hold the 9 (meaning neading the four of spades).

I am curious why you didn't raise pre-flop with the hand esp being last to act pre-flop? It's a decent hand to raise with and you get a good feeling depending on who has a decent hand and who makes it a practice to see every flop as long they can see it cheaply. I would think we need just a bit more information even if its only the sixth hand...was this the first hand for few of the callers was this your first you played as well...? Just a little more info.

[Orion]

the problem with only betting 500 on the flop is that youve given someone else a chance to chase cheaply. i cant imagine that if there WERE a bigger flush out there (only one i can think of to call a preflop raise would be k-10), that bet of 500 would have pushed them out. im never a plan of slowplaying online. who knows if someone made 2 pair and is chasing the full house? no, now that you made your 2nd nut flush, i think that now you need to make a strong bet. not an all in, but enough to chase out the chasers, and leave you with a little option should you get re raised. maybe 1500-1800.


edit, just reread the original post. no preflop raise = no idea what anyone could have. k-x of spades is a real possibility.

[w16227]

The problem with these big low limit MTTs is that the blinds progress pretty quick. You had ~ 5000T and the blinds are 150-300. You are 20th - yet just outside of the red zone. Kind of makes any playable hand one you need to make a stand on.

Preflop - not a bad hand to limp on. There were already three callers - so any raise would have to be a big one in order for you to take it down right there. Raising 3 the BB gives odds to anyone to call. Q9s (IMO) is actually better against more players as it will build the pot.

Postflop - the bet needs to be bigger. Betting 500 into a 1500 pot gives too many players reasons to call. Now - you want to clear some players out and give guys with A8 a reason to fold. You probably have the best hand right now (and one that can definately imrpove a lot), but you need to narrow the field somewhat.

The turn card was great for you. Now, you are pretty much comitted. I would not check. This is a scare card. Unless someone has the nut flush, the chances of a bluff bet are diminished. Maybe someone holding AK would play - but they may also like to see the river for free. Throw out another 500 bet (or maybe even 400) as a teaser. If they fold to that - then they would fold to the river bet anyway.

Pacific players are passive - and some try to be realllly tricky. In my experiences there, showing weakness with a wimpy bet has a better chance to goad out a bluff than simply checking. At the very least - the smaller bet has a good chance of bulding a nice pot. If I had bet 1000 on the flop - a 600 chip bet is now my move.

Regardless, after the turn - I would have enough chips in the pot to commit myself in the event of a raise back to me. If the players look stubborn - then allin on the river. If only one is left, then I sell the river for whatever I think I can get.

[jojobinks]

going for a check-raise does two things:

1) makes it less likely to get value from this hand
2) gives a free card to the A of spades

i probably would have bet 1000 on the flop, but now that i've made my hand, i'm definitely not going slow here.

i'd have a hard decision between betting 2/3 the pot and pushing. i'd expect to get called by a fairly wide range of hands, all of which, except Kx spades, i have crushed.
\
if they lay down, though, it's no big loss. i'm not looking to get much more than the 3000 already in the pot.

[nianticcardplayer]

After reading a few of the resposnses I took note from w16227 on that this is a great hand to limp with....I agree but he is last to act pre-flop and with conditions of the tourney to this point just outside the zone looking to cash big in the top twenty chips wise.., this is just me thinking out loud right now... I want to raise pre-flop if for nothing else to get the Kx (esp if its a rea low kicker) or other marginal crap hands that always seem to suck out... out of the mix everyone is sitting well chip wise to were the blinds are at so I would want these guys out of the way esp when things happen post flop that will give them a perceived reason to chase when the odds allow them to. Yes you will win most of the time, but it would really stink to play it by limping when you had the control not to limp, and create a situation that you lose control and end up getting hammered by a guy holding bull crap cards.

Besides that online play is so fast with the number of hands being played that its not bad taking a pot of 1500 right then and there with a small pre-flop raise. If you get called so be it you would have bet it at some point any way, I just don't like limping esp when things start moving fast as you approach only 100 left. Buidling a stack is still building, and the chip count at this table means that you may end up in a situation where two or three guys will go and call an all-in bet I just don't like that.