[mcc235]

I have had two very different experiences this week when I was dealt AX suited and flopped the nut flush.

The first time (at a casino $1/$2 NL $100 max buy in) after the flop three players had about $60 each, myself included. First player bets $2, I raise to $6 hoping to get some money without scaring everyone off, the button raises to $20, and the original bettor goes all in. I call, and so does the button. The original raiser flopped a set and the button had a Jack high flush. Nothing paired on the board and I won $180 or so.

The second time was online .25/$.50 NL - I only had $30 the button had something like $140. He was a decent player from what very little information I had. After the flop I checked - trying to be Mr. Tricky. The button raised $1 and I called. Now here is where I get stupid. On the turn the board pairs 7s. The button raises $4, I reraise to $8 and he goes all in. As you can guess my mind was blissfully wandering through my last experience, I was in the process of opening another window to browse to Amazon.com and start my holiday shopping with my winnings as I thought it was a repeat of last time. Of course he turns over a full house and the river card is no help to me.

Should I have raised after the flop? If so, how much? Should I have played my first experience (that I happened to win) differently - did I just get lucky?

Thanks for the advice.

[R Deckard]

Assuming the button had a set (i.e. pocket pair that made trips) on the flop, you probably didn't have enough money to make him fold. With a set, he's got an extremely strong made hand already, and has seven outs left to make a boat or quads. If you had bet large, he most likely would have interpreted it as a semi-bluff where you had only the A of the suit, and he probably would have either called or come over the top of you. Maybe if he had bottom set, two pair, or if a straight was also possible on the flop, would you be able to make him fold without seeing the turn.

Transaction: Deposit
Amount: $0.02

[jmda]

Agreed... you are not going to get him to fold a set, not with the money you have and he has. 7 outs for the turn and 10 outs for the river (assuming the turn does not fill him up). I flopped a full house yesterday in a sit n go and slow played it only to have the other player fill up better on the river, but he had a set on the flop with a big kicker so there was no getting him to fold, sometimes that happens and that is poker.

[mrticsay]

Interesting topic considering this hand that happened to me in a tournament tonight. I don't claim to have "the answer" for you...I've decided there never are those in poker. Hindsight is 20-20 (only when all the cards are shown) and its always different.

The winner of this pot "said" he would have called any bets (including all-in) at any point along the way here (pre-flop with pocket T, post flop and turn with trip T). So it didn't really matter. My belief is that (like most hands) if they don't have a hand then you can find yourself betting them out and maybe not getting as much as you might be able to. If they do have a hand, they're coming along and they may make the better hand...and maybe they won't. Its also always a matter of what you put them on (which you really don't know until its over).Isn't that the whole game anyways?

I won't go into my thinking the whole way...not really important (I don't think). Unless someone really wants to know. Here's what happened to me...

Saw Flop | Saw Turn | Saw River | Saw Showdown | Won
PokerStars Game #3250661716: Tournament #16092172, Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2005/12/05 - 18:09:30 (ET)
Table '16092172 1' Seat #4 is the button

MP1 - t1210
MP2 - t995
MP3 - t1335
Button - t1365
SB - t1440
HERO - t3355
UTG - t2510
UTG+1 - t1290

PREFLOP undefined
HERO is BB with K A
UTG raises t90 to t120
, 1 fold, MP1 calls t120
, 4 folds, HERO calls t90
.

FLOP t375 (3 players)
4 7 T
HERO checks, UTG bets t420
, MP1 raises t670 to t1090, HERO calls t1090
, UTG calls t670
.

TURN t3645 (3 players)
4 7 T 5
HERO bets t600
, UTG calls t600
.

RIVER t4845 (3 players)
4 7 T 5 T
HERO bets t700
, UTG calls t700.

SHOW DOWN
HERO shows K A (a flush, Ace high)
UTG shows T T (four of a kind, Tens)
UTG collected t2600 from pot
MP1 shows Q A (a pair of Tens)
UTG collected t3645 from pot

Final Pot: t6245 | Main Pot t3645. | Side Pot t3645. | Rake t3645.

[tomb1]

First hand was incredibly lucky, against a set and a lower flush. I think you played it fine, especially since they were doing your betting for you! Bank that cash...

You're gonna lose something that second hand if you don't take it down after the flop. The only question is how much.

When he bet $1 post flop, you could have check-raised big for value. You might win right there, for a small pot, but probably not if he has a set (did he flop two pair or a set?).

After the turn you're toast. But if you played cautious (you said he was a "decent player") and only called his $4 when the board paired, maybe you save some cash. But only maybe. It would be tough to lay down your hand. But if you check again on the river and he bets, you can see if he goes all-in or not. Here you could call a bet and lose less or maybe lay it down to an all-in.

There are probably better ways to play it, and I would likely lose my stack the same way you did! Just my 2¢ in hindsight.

[Pavel6969]

I think you played it fine. 99% of the world would lose with the nut flush to a full house.

[PFunk]

From my strategy perspective, I always bet my hands...Slowplaying will mostly help you lose the hand....The turn card always brings more outs, and you dont give that for free ever, unless you have a very strong read or have an unbeatable hand and want your opponent to improve....Through experience, I am happy to pick up the pot there if I bet out on the flop and dont get called personally, and hopefully continue on a card rush...Though obviously your first reaction when flopping the nut flush is to check and hope someone bets...I say put in a tiny (or overbet to look like a steal) bet and hope for the re-raise.

Trapping is great and dandy and all, you just really have to pick good spots for that and do it in a safe looking situation , and particularly almost exclusively in heads up situations...Just my perspective....You cant stop the miracle turns or river bad beats always, but atleast betting your hand wont let them happen for free, and will also help minimize them hopefully, as well as keep your piece of mind that you didnt play your hand wrong.


P.

[jojobinks]

once the board pairs, you won't find me raising...

[Jambine]

Originally Posted by mcc235

On the turn the board pairs 7s. The button raises $4, I reraise to $8 and he goes all in.

Man this is a hard one. If you want to know he is playing a FH then you had to raise and see his response. But you must decide FIRST how you will play back at him. If he goes all-in will I call, or fold? Maybe its a trap and I should try to check it down to the end.

Either way you need to know where you are going BEFORE you bet. And don't regret your decision, it could also have have been a big pot for you.

[SpeakEasy]

Firstt hand -- no problems. They did all the betting for you.

Second hand -- probably fold. It costs you about $20 to win about a $40 pot ($10 you money, + $30 his money). Against a solid player, what are the odds that he would go all in on a suited and paired board without a full house, after you check raise? Answer: more than this pot will cost you. Your check-raise on the turn signals that you have a flush, and he's going all in when he knows that you have a flush. Bet the flop stronger.