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Old 08-23-2005, 12:43 PM
Midnight sun Midnight sun is offline
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Calling a bluff holding ace high

So, played a live tournament this weekend. Buy-in approx. 25$, top 3 out of 15 players gets paid, first prize something like 250$. Starting stack=6k.

We're down to 5 remaining players. I've had a comfortable ride so far since theres lots of fishy players around and is currently second in chips with a stack of 21,5 k. Blinds are now at 500-1000. There's folding around to sb, who is the chipleader with like 35 k or something, and he calls my bb. Now, this guy is kind of fishy...he has obtained his chiplead by some highly questionable calls, like calling when a shortstack went all-in and a third person called holding only Ace 4 suited. He had them both covered, but it was still a very big bet for calling with that crap.

I look down on and decides to raise, being in position with a decent hand shorthanded, making it 4k total. He calls. Flop comes . I assume we've both missed since he checks it to me. I Put in 5k more to pick up the pot. He thinks for a few seconds and calls. So, where to put him then? Probobly on a draw. Turn comes . He checks again. I now don't know what to do with a very dangerous board and i've got completly nothing. Did he complete his flush? Got that K? I check. River . He bets 5 k.

Now, until the rivercard i really hadn't got a genuine tell of his hand, but my gut really told me he was just as empty as i was. He gave some tells of it aswell, you know, eyeballing me and all. Sure, it were a kind of subtile dangerous stare that he gave me, but eyeballing me none-the-less. So i go in to the tank and try to analyse this hand.

The certain fact is that i'm holding ****, and not much more. I got a tell that he is very weak. I know from previous plays that he can fall in love with aces, especially suited ones. I don't think he hit that flop. If he had a hand that included that 8 most players would have bet or check-raised then and there. I can't really see sombody slowplaying such a weak holding, not even this fishy guy. And since i read him as very weak, holding trip 6, flush or a boat is out of the question. And since he starts to look so uncomfortable, i can't put him on that king either. More and more pieces falls to place, and i'm growing more certain that my hand might be good here. Combining with his earlier plays, i put an ace in his hands. Just didn't see a pp in his hands. So, guess the question is if my 9 kicker is good?

What hands beat me? If i rule out the hands that have hit this flop good or decent, AK and A6 is out of the question. To me, it seemed odd and unlikely that he would have merly called my blind with AQ or AJ. I just didn't think of them as likely hands. A possibility, yes, but not likely. A10 is dangerous, but i don't really consider that to be too likely aswell. I belive he would have raised me with those hands. What i'm really afraid of is A3, which most certanly would make him act as uncomfortable as he is begining to look as time goes by. ( i probobly tought this over for 4 minutes or something, and at a pokertable that can feel like an eternity for everybody sitting there, especially for the guys involved in the pot). If i call another 5 k and have read him wrong i'll be shortstacked with only 8 k left. Not out of the running, but i'll be in a world of pain with only 8bbs left to play with. If i'm right i'll be in a commanding chiplead holding more than a third of all the chips out there.

I ask him if he wants a call. He tries to act cool, but his bodylanguage really cries out that he doesn't, twisting and turning funny as i ask. I go with my gut and call. He shows and i win the pot.

This is by far my best call. It really was challenging to call with only an ace high when a pair of dueces would have me beat, especially to a danerous 3-suited and paired board. However, in my opinion, if the board had looked much diffrent, i probobly couldn't have called his bet since i'd have a tougher time convincing myself that he had not hit anything. Not saying i played the entire hand correct, i basicly put myself in this spot by losing my aggression at the turn. However, i was so uncertain of his hand then, and i had **** with no draw, so a check seemed like the best play. Ofcourse, since i read him as really really weak at hte river, i could have pushed all-in to scare him off. But then again, i just felt that i couldn't represent anything good after thinking about it for so long, and he might have called if he had hit anything with a pot that huge. So, a call or a fold seemed to me like the only options after i had analyzed the hand. I'm very plaesed with that call.

Disregarding the result, anybody think it was correct to call with my weak hand going merly on tells and previous plays? Also, is there any way to justify a call with this hand and my read considering the pot and such? I know i'm getting like 4,5 on my money here, but...other than that, anybody?

I took first place later on.
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:09 PM
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SpeakEasy SpeakEasy is offline
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Re: Calling a bluff holding ace high

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight sun
Disregarding the result, anybody think it was correct to call with my weak hand going merly on tells and previous plays?
Absolutely correct. This is why I like live play so much better than on-line play. All the math analysis can be completely overridden by your read and poker instincts, if you trust yourself.

Nice play.
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Old 08-23-2005, 01:49 PM
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gwilkx gwilkx is offline
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bet the turn

your 5k bet on the flop almost commited you to the pot (9k of your 21k is in the pot already). i would have a hard time putting him on a flush draw since he thought about the call on the flop for a few seconds. from the way you describe the guy, he wasn't calculating whether he had the required 4:1 to call your bet - most weak players just call with a flush draw automatically, regardless of how much is in the pot or how many players remain.

if he doesn't have the flush draw, the Kd on the turn is just as scary to him as it is to you - I bet the turn here. How much depends on what I think of him (is he aggressive with the chip lead or does he protect it, etc). is he playing for first place, or just to make it in the money. in a small game like this, i play for first, so I bet the king on the turn and hope he goes away.

the way you played it was fine as well and may very well have been the best move since you know the guy. the river card is scary since he could've called your 5k on the flop with middle pair (thus justifying his pause before the call). and now he has trips. however, i think you absolutely have to call the bet on the river. AT or better is unlikely as is any PP for the reasons you outline (though I'm surprised that he wasn't the one to raise pre-flop). the pot has 23k in it and you're getting 4.6:1 to see it. the bet itself is suspicious - if he wants you to go away he needs to bet more like 9-10k (half the pot). nonetheless, you had the read on the guy and in your shoes i'd have been happy to call his 5k. the read is everything. as you said: call and lose and you're hurtin', call and win and you're in great shape. if you're playing for 1st it's an easy call. if you want to just squeak into the money then maybe keep your 12.5k and wait for a better situation. just an opinion.

nice hand.

gw-
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Old 08-23-2005, 04:18 PM
Midnight sun Midnight sun is offline
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Yeah, could i play this hand again i totaly agree that i should have bet the turn. I was kind of pissed at myself for not betting there, but, i just couldn't tell by then if it was a scarecard for him aswell or if it had put me way behind. And another bet there would have made it impossible for me to fold if he had called. Knowing his cards now i'm sure he would have folded to another bet, absolutely if i had moved all-in. Instead i put myself in this difficult spot.

But it's always easy afterwards... in the heat of the moment, it's a totaly diffrent thing.

Oh, and i agree with aiming for the first place. Thats also one of the reasons that i chose to call, since if my read of the situations was correct it would put me in a great spot for finishing first while the diffrence between 12 or 8 k wouldn't matter equally much, i'd still be pretty comitted once i start putting chips in the middle.

Well, there was this one other call in this tournament that might amuse. Like i said, there was some fish involved. Blinds at 200/400. I'm in sb with about 10 k and being delt . Folded around to me, i call bb knowing he will most likely not raise his blind.

Flop comes giving me a flushdraw. So, i bet 600. He instantly calls. Turn is giving me a few more outs, so i bet another 1000 to the pot. he instantly calls. River is . Bummer. Well, i figure that it's good chance he has been on the same draw as me and that he will fold to a another bet. I make it 2k, half of what was already in the pot. He instantly call and i'm prepared to throw my cards in the muck as he flips over for absolutely nothing and a split pot. I've never seen anything like it, i actually can't see a grown person make such a horiffic call. What was he aiming for? Even if he put me on a bluff, which i doubt, the best thing he could wish for was a split. I'm really sorry, but i couldn't resist falling in to laughter when he showed what he had called with. That's just amazing hillarious stuff. Also, taking this hand into account, it's a good point you make gw about instant calling a flushdraw.
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Old 08-23-2005, 05:02 PM
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gwilkx gwilkx is offline
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LMAO

LMAO! can i come join your game sometime?

a river spade and you get all his chips. in my experience, not only do players like that insta-call with a flush draw, but when it comes they lend no credit to the fact that someone could be holding a bigger flush.

gw-
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Old 08-23-2005, 05:44 PM
Midnight sun Midnight sun is offline
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Sure, just get your ass over here to Sweden...

Seriously, this game is so easy. It's not my regular game, and it's only been held once before with these guys. I ended up third that time after losing to a 2% on the river. Button had limped with rockets, and i had held 34o in bb. Flop went 233, and theres alot of raising, all players involved. i push all-in and the aces call. Turn 2. River A. the third guy anounced that he had dropped a2, so there was really only one card left for him to outdraw me with. I didn't go out on that hand since i covered him, but it left a very deep bleeding wound that i couldn't come back from, so effectively that was the hand that sent me home. Had i won, i would have been starting the heads up with over 75% of the chips. Not trying to come of as arrogant or anything, but in that particular game it's only gonna be bad luck keeping me from the money.
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Old 08-23-2005, 06:01 PM
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gwilkx gwilkx is offline
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ouch

ouch. the 1/2 outers just kill you. my QQ went down to 44 heads up in a winner take all last week. 4 on the river left me with 2 bets left in my stack. . .

but i guess if we wanted to win every time, we'd play chess for money

gw-
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