[Lumpy]

River?
Results?

The suspense is killing me.

[Murf]

Originally Posted by VARoadstter

Hmm. This guy is not going to go away it seems. At this point you have to think your hand is likely behind but you did pick up an OESD. With the betting the way it is, if you make your straight you're going to at worst split the pot if the flush doesn't get there.

Ok, what are the hands you can put your opponent on? I think it's possible he's got any of the following:
88, 55, 67 (spades?), JsTs, As9s. Big pairs should have been raised instead of called by this guy on the flop so I think they are not a strong possibility.

Basically, the possibilities are - he's on a draw, but has a pair; he's slowplaying a straight; he's got trips. If I had to say which it is, I'd say he's probably got trips.

If you hit your straight on the river you're going to win unless there's a flush on board.

I check here but Clonexx's point about going all-in is valid, too. It may already be too late to let this hand go. Even so, I'd let that last card come.

I'd propably rule out 67s... it would take a loose player (which is why reads would help here) in my mind to call a raise to 3.5xBB with those cards in a 3 way pot with the inital raiser to act after you. It's a stretch, but what if he was playing his hand the same way you were? Could he have been on Jacks, and played the flop the same way you did, thinking his pocket pair is good?

Of the three posibilities VARoadstter lists, only one of them could hurt you if you see the free card. If he is on trips or a made straight, the river will most likely not improve his hand, but gives you a change to make your OESD. If he is on a flush draw with a pair, and you put him in, he will most likely call, and if the river comes a spade, you are fscked. But if you wait until the river, and see the spade, you could check/fold and save yourself the money.

I'd check.

[Clonexx]

I'm not totally against checking, but if k2 really has called all this on a top pair/draw type situation, he may lay it down to a forced all in on this turn. This was not played like trips, I feel he would have re-raised us on the flop and bet the turn with trip 8s or a straight. This really feels like As9s....I guess it could be JJ also, checking it hoping for a bet from us so that he can check-raise since we have shown so much aggression so far.

I still feel pretty confident that we have the best hand here though with a very strong draw to an even better hand. Checking would be ok I suppose, but I would rather put k2 to a decision for all the rest of his money. If we get a quick call then I could be totally wrong and we could be way behind here.

I guess the agressive in me says go all in, but checking is not a horrible play either.

[99%evil]

Seeing how this guy played other hands would make a huge impact on how I'd play it. If he played a lot of random hands and was very loose I'd be wary. If he was very tight he may have hit his set, but probably would have raised to push the chasers out of the pot. You'd really have to see what style of play he had on previous hands.

[Murf]

Originally Posted by Clonexx

I'm not totally against checking, but if k2 really has called all this on a top pair/draw type situation, he may lay it down to a forced all in on this turn. This was not played like trips, I feel he would have re-raised us on the flop and bet the turn with trip 8s or a straight. This really feels like As9s....I guess it could be JJ also, checking it hoping for a bet from us so that he can check-raise since we have shown so much aggression so far.

I still feel pretty confident that we have the best hand here though with a very strong draw to an even better hand. Checking would be ok I suppose, but I would rather put k2 to a decision for all the rest of his money. If we get a quick call then I could be totally wrong and we could be way behind here.

I guess the agressive in me says go all in, but checking is not a horrible play either.

The way he played on the flop, I'm not so sure he would lay down As9s to an all-in here. If he is going to call anyway, why not wait until the river comes to make you own decision easier?

[SpeakEasy]

*** TURN *** [8 5 9] J

k2snow154: checks
Darvcus: bets $401.45 and is all-in
k2snow154: folds

*** RIVER *** [8 5 9 J] 3

*** SHOW DOWN ***
Darvcus: shows [T T] (a pair of Tens)
Seat 5: KANWAR1 (big blind) mucked [A 5]
Darvcus collected $121.80 from side pot
Darvcus collected $61.30 from main pot



Comments on this hand:

1. Hand analysis: All-in by the short stacked player on the flop was virtually meaningless. A short-stacked player at the 6-seat tables will make this move with a huge range of hands, including pairing up with any board card (as evidenced by an all-in bet with a pair of fives…). The second opponent, assuming a typical 6-seat table player, would have raised or check-raised on the flop if he had a set, to spook out the flush draw. His call signaled flush draw to me on the flop, or maybe a straight draw, and his check on the turn seemed to confirm my guess. It was highly unlikely that he held AA, KK QQ or JJ without a pre-flop raise.

2. This hand is a good lesson in the “dry side pot.” My read was that I was way ahead of the all-in player, and I was betting into a dry side pot on the flop (1) to chase the live opponent away and (2) build a second pot if he was, in fact, on a draw. When I picked up 8 extra outs on the turn, the side pot took on new life.

3. The $1/$2 6-seat games are great. People play much looser than at full tables. The best strategy is to play more loose pre-flop, and then normal from the flop through the rest of the hand. People will frequently call all the way down with second or bottom pair. Your normal strength hands are often winners, and your big hands are killers. Not always, but these are the norms. If you get bored with lots of folding at the full tables, try the 6-seat tables – you’ll see more hands, and there’s more opportunity to build a stack with the loose play.

[SpaceMonkey]

Thanks for posting this hand. Good tips, and it's reassuring to me that I had a similar thought process throughout. Makes me feel better about the horrible 1-2 and 2-4 NL run I've been on.

[tomb1]

Dammit, Speak... why didn't you check after the turn so we could've seen K2snow's cards!

[Murf]

Originally Posted by tomb1

Dammit, Speak... why didn't you check after the turn so we could've seen K2snow's cards!

I think we can guestimate the results here. I would say K2 was on a flush draw.

Thanks for the hand Speak, your strategy posts are always greatly appriciated.

[w16227]

Originally Posted by SpeakEasy

I picked up 8 extra outs on the turn, the side pot took on new life.

3. The $1/$2 6-seat games are great. People play much looser than at full tables. The best strategy is to play more loose pre-flop, and then normal from the flop through the rest of the hand. People will frequently call all the way down with second or bottom pair. Your normal strength hands are often winners, and your big hands are killers. Not always, but these are the norms. If you get bored with lots of folding at the full tables, try the 6-seat tables – you’ll see more hands, and there’s more opportunity to build a stack with the loose play.

Equally true for ,y bread an butter - limit games. Also less risk ( the misreads are not as costly)