[erdiesel]

I'm dealt 95os from the big blind. Several limpers, and I check (pot around 14). flop comes 78rag with 2 clubs on the board. check all around, and the turn brings a 6, completely my straight so i throw out a pot+ sized bet (15 making the pot almost 30) to deny pot odds to anyone chasing a flush, and everyone folds except one. River brings a club putting 3 clubs on the board so I check and the one remaining guy throws out a bet of 7 which was an extremely weak bet but I've been playing aggressively that night and I was thinking he was going to trap me by re-raising all in if he was holding a flush, so instead of raising, I called.

Cards get flipped and I say i have a straight and he's holding ace high (clubs) and nothing else. Keep in mind this is about 6 am in the morning after i've been playing since noon the previous day so i was rather tired and might not have said i have a straight loud enough. But before I knew what was happening dealer says ace high wins, mucks the board, grabs my cards and mixes it into the muck pile and begins to push the pot over to the other guy. Immediately I begin doubting whether I had a straight since I was rather tired. However, all the other players erupt in protest saying what's going on, that I had a 9 high straight and how did the other player win.

The dealer says there was no 6 on the board and that the other player held the 6, not the board. She pulls the 6 from the muck and asks the other player if he had the 6, and that player doesn't say a word. Everyone else says the 6 was on the board that I had 59, and had the 9 high straight. Everyone at the table unanimously confirmed this and now i'm livid and tell the dealer to do her job properly and after everyone starts siding with me, she takes the pot and gives it to me. the other guy begins to protest......weakly might i add and turns to me and says well if you had the straight you should be more forceful about it. well no kidding but that's why i'm bitching now..........

I was fully prepared to call over the floor manager and have them pull the surveillance tape if the dealer did not do the right thing, but what pissed me off the most was that the other guy knew that he did not hold the 6 of clubs in his hand but would not confirm that to the dealer, he kept quiet and by staying quiet he was being completely dishonest in my opinion.

But the table certainly got the dealer to reverse her call and award the pot to me even though all the cards had been mucked and she couldn't sort out who had what.

[detroitdad]

I'm glad it worked out for you. If the table didn't support you though you would have had a hard time getting that pot.

Would the casino review the tapes for small pot (small by their standards).

B

Nice hand by the way

[jojobinks]

one simple thing you can do: don't give up your hand until the pot is pushed. the dealer isn't going to take them from your hand.

[cnw400]

The Borgata dealers are the best I've ever encountered, but anyone can make a mistake. This past weekend was so busy, they were all doing overtime shifts. She was probably as tired as you. I'm glad it got sorted out in the end. Other guy sounds like a real jerk.

[abby99]

Lesson of the day: Protect your hand. The dealer is supposed to muck losing hands before pushing the pot to the winner, so if she reaches for yours before killing the other guy's hand, don't let go of your cards. I've learned not to toss my cards over face up. Instead, I turn them over face up but keep my fingers on the cards until the winner has been determined. Just the voice of experience here.

Oops, almost forgot: Nice hand, sir!

[erdiesel]

Originally Posted by abby99

Lesson of the day: Protect your hand. The dealer is supposed to muck losing hands before pushing the pot to the winner, so if she reaches for yours before killing the other guy's hand, don't let go of your cards. I've learned not to toss my cards over face up. Instead, I turn them over face up but keep my fingers on the cards until the winner has been determined. Just the voice of experience here.

Oops, almost forgot: Nice hand, sir!

Thanks guys, i'm still relatively new at live table play so I kind of still defer a bit to the dealers.

In this case the dealer thought I had the losing hand, and I've always just put them face up a little bit towards the dealer and usually have my hands off. He showed his cards first and when i showed mine, she declared him the winner and immediately, i mean immediately swooped up my cards. I don't think she even heard me say i had a straight. She then swooped up the board cards along with the other guy's hands. Great advice on keeping a finger on your cards though.................I will certainly not give up my winning cards anymore unless the pot has been shoved my way

If she is supposed to take the losing hand first, muck them, then winner's hands, when is she supposed jumble up all of the cards on the board into the pile?

Also, the first response has me wondering........would the casino pull surveillance tape to resolve a $50 pot? I think they absolutely should but wondering what the general policy is on this? And what if the other guy truly truly (hypothetically) believed he had the winning hand but everything got mucked. Would the casino intervene if two players really really disagreed with each other and the table was split as to who should have the pot? I think its a great question.

[abby99]

Originally Posted by erdiesel

Thanks guys, i'm still relatively new at live table play so I kind of still defer a bit to the dealers.

In this case the dealer thought I had the losing hand, and I've always just put them face up a little bit towards the dealer and usually have my hands off. He showed his cards first and when i showed mine, she declared him the winner and immediately, i mean immediately swooped up my cards. I don't think she even heard me say i had a straight. She then swooped up the board cards along with the other guy's hands.

If she is supposed to take the losing hand first, muck them, then winner's hands, when is she supposed jumble up all of the cards on the board into the pile?

Also, the first response has me wondering........would the casino pull surveillance tape to resolve a $50 pot? I think they absolutely should but wondering what the general policy is on this? I think its a great question.

The fact that this took place at 6:00 a.m. and everybody was tired probably has a lot to do with this particular incident. According to Robert's Rules of Poker, the proper sequence is for the dealer to declare the winner,then kill the hands of the losing players, and finally award the pot and scoop up the remaining cards (I could not find a preferred order for the last two actions). Procedures may vary from one casino to another, but I've never seen a dealer mix the cards the way you described. I realize you're relatively new to live play. You might consider developing the habit of keeping a couple of fingertips on your cards after turning them over until you're sure that the winner was declared correctly.

Re having the tape reviewed, I don't see why that wouldn't be possible even if the pot wasn't huge. Had the dealer stuck with her original decision, I definitely would have requested a review. Because a review can take half an hour or longer (locating the hand on tape can take a while), the floor would probably allow play to continue. I don't know what they would do about stack sizes given that this is a NL game -- temporarily remove the contested pot from play?

[turboj619]

When I worked at Harrah's Las Vegas, surveillance reviewed tapes for any table, any stakes. So to answer your question yes, they can check the tapes for you. The poker room manager would have to make the request, but it can be done. But that was Harrah's. It may very from casino to casino, but from my experience there, they would check tapes for any dispute.

-Jeremy

[erdiesel]

Originally Posted by turboj619

When I worked at Harrah's Las Vegas, surveillance reviewed tapes for any table, any stakes. So to answer your question yes, they can check the tapes for you. The poker room manager would have to make the request, but it can be done. But that was Harrah's. It may very from casino to casino, but from my experience there, they would check tapes for any dispute.

-Jeremy

I would imagine most reputable casinos would have such a policy. Anything less and i'm thinking there might be some liability issues involved.

Turbo, out of curiosity, if you're a casino employee, are you allowed to gamble in the casino you work at off hours? What if you're a dealer? can you play poker at the same casino off hours? Or is that not allowed?

[turboj619]

Originally Posted by erdiesel

I would imagine most reputable casinos would have such a policy. Anything less and i'm thinking there might be some liability issues involved.

Turbo, out of curiosity, if you're a casino employee, are you allowed to gamble in the casino you work at off hours? What if you're a dealer? can you play poker at the same casino off hours? Or is that not allowed?

Yea, it helps to shoot down any integrity issues that might pop up. Trust me we always had people trying to sue us for one thing or another.

Harrah's rules on employees gambling were department specific. I worked with the security/risk management department and we were not allowed to gamble or hang out on property when we were not working. Only time we were allowed on site when we were off the clock, was to eat in the cafeteria. We could go in on our days off and eat, and we could eat before and after the shift if we wanted. Our supervisors were not allowed to gamble at any Harrah's owned casino.

They had an interesting system with the other departments. Like slot attendants, and slot techs could play table games but no machines. Dealers could play the machines but no table games. Everyone else i was not to sure of. The cool thing is that we were allowed to gamble and hang out at all of the other properties they owned. We were just encouraged to go and have fun at the other casinos, and try to stay away from our primary work site. Of course, this was just how Harrah's did things, and some things could have changed by now, it was a couple of years ago.

I play at the Barona Casino out here in San Diego, and they allow their dealers to play at the poker tables when they are off the clock. I find it weird, but I get along with all of them so I really don't complain. Sorry for the long post. I hope it was helpfull.