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  #1 (permalink)     Top 
Old 08-19-2007, 01:01 PM
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luckychick luckychick is offline
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Worst floor decision I've ever seen

This didn't affect me directly, other than to make me wonder if I should keep playing at this casino. I've seen a lot of inconsistencies at this place, but this was terrible. It happened at a local casino in Edmonton.

The background:

1-2NL. The two people involved are in the 8 seat and the 10 seat, and I am in the 6 seat directly across from the 10 seat with a good view of the happenings. Both the 10 and the 8 seat appear to be regulars. I would wager that the 8 seat is a winning player, while the 10 seat clearly is not. The 10 seat has close to $800 in front of him (although is still down for the evening) and the 8 seat has about $450 - they are the two biggest stacks. Button is on the 10 seat.

The 8 seat is in late position and raises to 12 pf and gets four callers. Flop comes . Check, check, to the 8 seat who bets $55. Ten seat raises to $200, pushing two stacks over the betting line. Folds to the 8 seat, who announces "All in". His previous $55 bet is over the betting line, but the remaining 4 stacks and some change remain behind his cards. Ten seat (right next to the dealer!) nods his head, and says "Call". 8 seat says, "I have queens", and flips over the . Dealer says, "Two players," and taps the table. The 5 seat asks "Shouldn't he (motioning to 10 seat) flip over his cards?" and dealer answers "Not if he doesn't want to" as he burns and flips over the turn. I tell the 5 seat "You only have to flip in tournaments, you don't have to in cash games. Turn comes the , the table is quiet; dealer taps table, and burns and flips over river: the .

Ten seat is looking from his cards to the table repeatedly. Dealer announces "Three queens," and looks expectantly at the ten seat. About 7 seconds go by, with the 10 seat examining his hidden cards and looking at the board, and dealer requests "Flip your cards over or muck". The 10 seat slides his cards over to the dealer.

The 8 seat then takes back his $55, and matches up two of his stacks to the two stacks that the 10 seat had bet. He counts down the rest, and says "Two twenty-one more." Ten seat then says "I only bet $200". The 8 seat says, "Yes, I raised you all in, and you called." Ten seat shakes his head and says, "No, only two hundred." Everyone at the table starts buzzing.

Dealer immediately calls the floor and accurately recounts all the action. Floor asks "Did you think he called the all-in?" Dealer says, "Of course, I heard him -- otherwise I wouldn't have dealt out the board the way I did." Floor then looks at the table and asks "Did anyone else hear him?" Entire table nods yes (except for one guy, who shares that he was in the washroom). I add that I heard him, and at no point did he make an effort to stop the action on the turn or river, when he wasn't given an opportunity to check or bet. Floor makes his ruling: no all-in, only the $200 needs to be called! I was in disbelief.

Well, the 8 seat is livid (obviously). He leaves the table and talks to the floor at the cage. He comes back, saying that he is going to call the gaming commission, and would it be okay if he took our names and numbers. Everyone complies, including the dealer, who also gives him his dealer number. Dealer says "I feel responsible for not moving the money in the pot, but you should talk to the poker room manager, he just came on shift."

Manager talks to the 8 seat for a while. Comes back about 45 min later and I pulls the 8 seat about a foot away, and I hear him say "We checked the tape, everything happens as you say, we just need some time." About 20 min later, the manager pulls the 10 seat over to the cage, they calmly talk, and then that's it.

I asked the 8 seat what happened at the end of the night as we were cashing out(assuming he got paid by the house, actually). He tells me that the floor told him his options were to (1) File a police report against the 10 seat, and retrieve the money through the courts, or (2) Have the house cover it, but then the floor and the dealer would get in "big trouble" from the gaming commission, or (3) Let it go. He chose 3.

Turns out karma is a good thing though. Next night I played with the 8 seat and saw him take down over $1500 in two hours from some guy who had a good day at the track.
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Old 08-19-2007, 01:15 PM
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Re: Worst floor decision I've ever seen

WOW is all I can say. That is definitely one of the worst decisions by the floor that I have heard of. Everything clearly points towards an all in. There has to be more to the story - like the floor and seat 10 are buddies.

Curious to know if you end up going back
J
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Old 08-19-2007, 01:19 PM
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Re: Worst floor decision I've ever seen

I can only give a one-word response to this...

UNBELIEVABLE !!!!!

I had to read, and re-read the story... and I still can't believe this happened.
Had it been me... I most likely would have chosen option #2, felt bad about the possibility of the floor and dealer possibly getting in deep doo-doo, but more than $200 was in question. I would not have been as easy-going, I don't think.

R.
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Old 08-19-2007, 01:33 PM
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Re: Worst floor decision I've ever seen

was this argyll? yellowhead? I'm guessing one of these...surely not the river cree...if you say baccarat I'd say none of this would surprise me
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Old 08-19-2007, 01:37 PM
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Re: Worst floor decision I've ever seen

Quote:
Originally Posted by tastic View Post
was this argyll? yellowhead? I'm guessing one of these...surely not the river cree...if you say baccarat I'd say none of this would surprise me
Yeah, Baccarat.

I've seen all sorts of inconsistencies in rulings there, but most of them were not that big of a deal. We can walk there from our place, so we go there the most, but it's pretty terrible, actually. The floor was clearly taking the passive route, and just didn't want to force anyone to put more chips in the pot, he just more or less said "You get what is in there already."

I was planning on talking to the floor after I cashed out and saying, "Look, this was terrible, and doesn't really instill confidence in your casino". I didn't want to say anything at the time, because too many people yapping often makes things worse. After the victim decided to let it go, I didn't say anything, but I'm still considering it.
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Old 08-19-2007, 01:53 PM
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Re: Worst floor decision I've ever seen

Yeah...the baccarat poker room is the worst...I played there once and only once...just to get chips actually and its by far my least favorite in town...I got the feeling right away it was a pretty shoddy operation...In a stretch of 5-10 hands there were 3 pots that we had to argue with the dealer because he didn't recognize the pots were chopped and started shoving chips to one player..

I guess I'm lucky to be down the street from the argyll so I'm there most of the time...most of the guys you met at Johns like the river cree alot, but its kind of far for me...

Quote:
Originally Posted by luckychick View Post
Yeah, Baccarat.

I've seen all sorts of inconsistencies in rulings there, but most of them were not that big of a deal. We can walk there from our place, so we go there the most, but it's pretty terrible, actually. The floor was clearly taking the passive route, and just didn't want to force anyone to put more chips in the pot, he just more or less said "You get what is in there already."

I was planning on talking to the floor after I cashed out and saying, "Look, this was terrible, and doesn't really instill confidence in your casino". I didn't want to say anything at the time, because too many people yapping often makes things worse. After the victim decided to let it go, I didn't say anything, but I'm still considering it.
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Old 08-19-2007, 04:40 PM
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Re: Worst floor decision I've ever seen

Quote:
Originally Posted by rimmerryan View Post
I can only give a one-word response to this...

UNBELIEVABLE !!!!!

I had to read, and re-read the story... and I still can't believe this happened.
Had it been me... I most likely would have chosen option #2, felt bad about the possibility of the dealer possibly getting in deep doo-doo, but more than $200 was in question. I would not have been as easy-going, I don't think.

R.
FYP.
Screw the floor. He shouldn't have a job in the gaming industry. I too would feel bad about the dealer. This is an eye opener for me as I deal part time. I usually follow the same procedure as the dealer. Square the pot later. It is a no win situation for a dealer. If he takes the time to count down the stacks first, you get a bunch of whiners saying he is slowing things down.
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Old 08-19-2007, 04:53 PM
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Re: Worst floor decision I've ever seen

Wow, what kind of place would rule like that? The decision whether to play there again or not would be how many fish there are playing. If there is an easy game, then playing there again would be ok, just make sure that all bets and everything are covered with chips over the betting line.
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Old 08-19-2007, 07:33 PM
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Re: Worst floor decision I've ever seen

That is the worst floor decision I've ever read. I wonder how someone at the big game at the Bellagio would take the news over a $1M hand. Just because the stakes are smaller doesn't make the ruling more palatable. The player who lost is just as bad, if not worse for his dishonesty. If he's a regular, then I bet tables beat up on him collectively....family pot that man for every raise he brings to the table!
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Old 08-19-2007, 09:41 PM
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Re: Worst floor decision I've ever seen

That decision was awful, as in "OJ is not guilty" or "Let's draft Ryan Leaf" kind of awful. The floorman is a spineless indecisive lets-all-be-friends kind of idiot. The dealer is blameless. Seat 10 is a crook.
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