[Mundial]

Hello everyone,

Another new member here, though I have been lurking for some time now . Me and a couple of friends play (very) small stakes poker, using the good old dice chips. I'm looking for a serious upgrade to high quality clay chips, and have ordered several samples. Unfortunately for my wallet, I adore the Paulson Le Noir chips. I have a few questions though:

- Breakdown of the set: we play 0.05 and 0.10 blinds micro stakes. The 5$ chip would serve as 5c chip, 25$ as 25c chip, and so on. We usually buy in for 10 euro, with additional buyins (usually 3-4 people buy in an extra 5 to 10 euro). Most of the time there is 6 players, sometimes up to 8 players. I like large starting stacks, so I figured out the following 300 set breakdown:

120 * 5$ (allows for 20 chips if we play with 6 people, 15 chips if there's 8 people)
120 * 25$ (the same reasoning)
50 * 100$ (should just fit the first buyin)
10 * 500$ (for extra rebuys, they make change at the table)

Starting stacks would be:
- 6 players: 20*5 (1 euro), 20*25 (5 euro), 4*100 (4 euro). This leaves plenty for rebuys.
- 8 players: 15*5 (0,75 euro), 13*25 (3,25 euro), 6*100 (6 euro). This leave the $500 chips for rebuys.

It seems ok to me, but any suggestions are welcome of course.

My second question is the shipping and tax: the price of the set would be 424 dollar (shipping included), a hefty sum. My fear is in the taxes that I would have to pay. Does anyone have experience with shipping and customs to Belgium? Is it almost certain I will have to pay the tax, or is there a way to avoid them?

Many thanks,

Jonas

[miwolfram]

Hello Jonas,

I don't know the exact situation as it is in Belgium.
But in Austria and Germany (as it is in the whole European Union) you have to pay "import sales tax" (Einfuhrumsatzsteuer) which is equal to the normal "sales tax" of your country (in Austria 20%, in Germany 19%) and it will be calculated on the price of the set (included shipping!).

Your breakdown looks good for a 0.5/0.10 Cashgame, but I'd prefer 10$-Chips (I like them best of the paulson noir).
Although you could add them in future if you play 0.10/0.20 Cashgame.

Greetings,
Mike.

[Mundial]

That's what I feared, I'll probably be facing an additional cost of 20% then. As for the 10$ chip, I heard it had pretty bad color transfer problems, which is why I skipped it (and it doesn't seem really necessary since 5-25-100 is a pretty common denom progression) - I am thinking about adding to the set later on though, so it might become useful if we up the stakes.

[Felix]

Regarding the taxes, miwolfram is correct.
Regarding the breakdown, i would get less T5 and more T25 or T100.
Because you will need the T5 mostly for the Blinds.
Something like this:
80x5 = 10x5 at 8 players
120x25 = 14x25 at 8 Players
80x100 = 6x100 at 8 Players
20x500 = 2x500 for 10 Rebuys

With this you have enough chips for Rebuys, if the game gets bigger. That makes a total bank of €214.
Also i would definitely not recommend buying the T10 Noir´s. That blue Paulson color has a serious color-transfer, almost like a crayon.

[rakrul]

I've had partial success with Sidepot only listing the value of the chips for customs and not the shipping which should give you a tad lower sales tax. They won't list the value lower than it is, in fact hardly any American company is willing to do that.

[Felix]

Oh...i have just forgotten that i have ordered a 300 set for T1500 Tournaments and NL10 cash-games that should work for 6, if necessary for 8 players. this is its breakdown:
60x5
120x25
100x100
20x500
T1500 startingstacks:
10x5
18x25
10x100
So after stacking 6 players there is a rest of 40x100 and the 20x500 for rebuys or add-ons.
NL10 Startstacks:
10x5
18x25
5x100
So after stacking 6 players there is a rest of $170 for Rebuys or more players.
Perhaps this will also work for you. I just have quite few 5c chips, because i wont need too many of them. If someone runs short, he has to make change from other players or the pot.

[Mundial]

Thanks for the breakdown suggestions! The third option is probably less applicable (we might up the buyin / stakes but I think it's unlikely - we try to keep it low stakes so no-one loses a lot of money. It's more about meeting socially and of course having a little competition going). I like the 80/120/80/20 breakdown, though it makes the starting stacks smaller. Guess it all depends on how much extra buyins are needed in one evening ...I'll take note of this during the next few games we play so I have a rough idea of what I'll need. Many thanks!

[jdunford]

Originally Posted by Mundial

Most of the time there is 6 players, sometimes up to 8 players. I like large starting stacks, so I figured out the following 300 set breakdown:

120 * 5$ (allows for 20 chips if we play with 6 people, 15 chips if there's 8 people)
120 * 25$ (the same reasoning)
50 * 100$ (should just fit the first buyin)
10 * 500$ (for extra rebuys, they make change at the table)

Starting stacks would be:
- 6 players: 20*5 (1 euro), 20*25 (5 euro), 4*100 (4 euro). This leaves plenty for rebuys.
- 8 players: 15*5 (0,75 euro), 13*25 (3,25 euro), 6*100 (6 euro). This leave the $500 chips for rebuys.

It seems ok to me, but any suggestions are welcome of course.

I'd make a small (but slightly expensive) change: Double the number of $100s to 100... for several reasons. First, you never want to run out. Second, if you ever have more people show up (10-12) and/or decide to start playing tournament poker, you could use this set for a T1000 (equivalent to €10, but with less total chips in a stack), with a fairly standard breakdown of:

10 x $5
10 x $25
7 x $100

Your breakdown (but with 50 more $100s) allows for up to 12 players (2 tables of 6?), and gives you enough remaining $100s to colour-up the $5s (and even $25s, if you wanted to) when the blinds get big enough that they're no longer needed.

You could probably make the same argument for a few more $500s (maybe 20), but I personally think the $100s are more crucial.

In my opinion, since you're already going to be paying an arm + a leg in shipping / VAT, you'd might as well "future-proof" your set with 50 more chips.

Otherwise, your analysis for cash game breakdowns looks good to me!

[miwolfram]

Originally Posted by jdunford

In my opinion, since you're already going to be paying an arm + a leg in shipping / VAT, you'd might as well "future-proof" your set with 50 more chips.

Would be the best time to do so while the US-dollar is so unbelievably low (compared to the Euro) .

[Mundial]

Would be the best time to do so while the US-dollar is so unbelievably low (compared to the Euro) .

That's one of the reasons I'm even considering it: I can order the Noirs from the US, and even with the tax I'll pay as much as I would for other Paulson chips (Casino de Isthmus, Pharao's, ..) in Europe. I don't think I'll buy an extra 50 to be future proof though, I'd rather start with this set and then add to it should the need arise. Might pay a bit more in shipping (though it ain't -that- much) but I won't spend money on chips I won't use anyway...