[ScottGunn911]

Ordered my set of 1,000 Paulson "World" chips right after having surgery about 1 1/2 weeks ago. I got the chips and had them put aside until this afternoon when I took them out for pics and set up for the tourney this weekend....Back surgery had me laid out.

Had about 6-8 chips that were busted out of the box, all $5 and figured they may have took a spill in the original box. Ok, probably be able to get that taken care of.

My big worry, I took each stack of 20 out of the box and stacked on end on my kitchen countertop (hard smooth surface). Of each stack, approx. 1-3 chips you could see a slight gap in, which caused the stacks of 20 to "wobble" back and forth. This was consistent through all denominations.

So, all you experts on clay chips out there, is this normal?

Please, all replies welcome, as you know this wasn't a cheap purchase and want to make sure I get what I paid for!

[jdunford]

You have some reading to do...

Here's the first thread to look at:
http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/poker-...-paulsons.html

There are others, but this'll get you started.

[jdunford]

Here are some more links you'll probably be interested in:

http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/group-...-privates.html
http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/poker-...son-chips.html

And something more humorous:

http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/palmim...epair-kit.html

[ScottGunn911]

Originally Posted by jdunford

You have some reading to do...

Here's the first thread to look at:
http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/poker-...-paulsons.html

There are others, but this'll get you started.

Wow, I just joined Chiptalk and never saw the posts previous to purchase.

That's really is starting to pi** me off now that I know it was a known issue and they were still sold to me without ever being told they were defective, especially for the price paid for them.

I will read the forums, but was there ever a resolution or stance taken on how retailers were going to deal with the issue?

Man do I feel like an idiot. I did a ton of research prior to purchasing, even had a "price competition" on another forum showing the offered price of Paulson Worlds from numerous vendors after asking for a price via e-mail versus direct online purchase. At that point I didnt know Chiptalk was THE "chip forum", I was using the one on Home Poker Tourney. No one there mentined anything about warped chips.

Also feel stupid for posting this without performing a search on the site first, sorry guys for posting another similar thread. I just got a bit steamed and posted in a hurry.

My opinion, the chips shouldn't be sold defective at $0.20 per chip, and certainly not the price these go for. Secondly, even if the manufacturer decides to overlook the issue, I think it should be listed somewhere on the retailer's site so buyers know pre-sale.

[ScottGunn911]

Retailer did respond already and say I could return them. I guess it was a good idea to make sure and buy from a reputable seller. I am happy that the issue was responded to super fast (one of the reasons for choosing them in the first place) and that they are offering a refund from what I understand. I will continue doing business there if it all goes well.

I still think it should be noted pre-purchase (and in clear view) on the sites selling the chips. I read everywhere that Paulson chips were manufactured to the highest tolerances, but nothing about warping on any site.

So, is it worth living with?

[jdunford]

Well, I guess that's your decision to make. They're great looking chips that don't quite stack as well as what we think Paulsons should stack like. This is probably due to a slight imperfection in the new mold (with suits, etc.) and/or a change in materials for home-quality Paulsons.

In that first link I posted, a "newb" made a very nice summary of the discussion... in case you didn't get that far, here's a link directly to that post:

http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/464899-post157.html

Apache's a great vendor and I'm glad to hear they'll let you return your chips if you want. It's totally up to you. You shouldn't be unsatisfied with a $1k purchase. But at the same time, if you go to the M2M and Want-to-Trade forums here, you'll find that there's still a 2nd hand market for them, just as there would be for any new chip. Some people don't mind the slight imperfections, while it bothers others (just like mis-shapen inlays of older BCCs bothered a lot of people).

* By the way, welcome to Chiptalk!

[2_hotty]

Whether or not it's worth living with is entirely up to you. Personally, for $1 a chip, I wouldn't live with it. You can get some retired casino chips for that price, and have a better (IMO) set anyway. So for me, I would return them. You shouldn't have to "settle" when spending a dollar per chip for new chips.

Welcome to the forum!

[ScottGunn911]

Thank you for the welcome! This place is great, wish I had found it a lot sooner!

I have a difficult decision to make, and no time to make it so it seems.


I really disagree with the post:

"In that first link I posted, a "newb" made a very nice summary of the discussion... in case you didn't get that far, here's a link directly to that post:

http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/464899-post157.html"

IMHO, Paulson got it's high quality reputation by putting out high quality product. I have read on several vendor sites how Paulsons are made to the highest tolerance standards for weight, thickness, etc, AND how these chips are made on the same machines by the same people, on and on.

Never saw anything about this on the retail sites, just how they are the highest quality. But this is really a manufacturing problem, not so much a retailer fault, I imagine they are getting stuck in the middle having to take a mute stance on the issue.

They can put whatever sticker they want on it, use whatever colors they want, and none of it matters if they can't make the most basic characteristic of the chip up to minumum standards.

I don't think any of this is arguing about if this is a flaw, I think it is more of how big of a flaw and to what extent we as consumers will put up with to avoid the hassle of returning and getting a replacement set. I actually think the new guys post is absolutely backwards, we PAY for the highest quality chip as advertised but don't recieve a chip that meets the claim, therefore we are not getting what we paid extra to get.

I believe that it has been argued about and twisted so much that the very simple fact of cost vs. quality vs. claim was lost. I was upset when I saw it and posted a fast post without searching first, but have calmed down and researched the issue level headed (I think). I don't think that expecting the chip to be flat, and maybe even flatter than others is unreasonable considering the price and hype.

Either that, or I am totally wrong and completelly missing the point, haven't decided yet.

[palmimports]

Originally Posted by ScottGunn911

Thank you for the welcome! This place is great, wish I had found it a lot sooner!

I have a difficult decision to make, and no time to make it so it seems.


I really disagree with the post:

"In that first link I posted, a "newb" made a very nice summary of the discussion... in case you didn't get that far, here's a link directly to that post:

http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/464899-post157.html"

IMHO, Paulson got it's high quality reputation by putting out high quality product. I have read on several vendor sites how Paulsons are made to the highest tolerance standards for weight, thickness, etc, AND how these chips are made on the same machines by the same people, on and on.

Never saw anything about this on the retail sites, just how they are the highest quality.

They can put whatever sticker they want on it, use whatever colors they want, and none of it matters if they can't make the most basic characteristic of the chip up to minumum standards.

I don't think any of this is arguing about if this is a flaw, I think it is more of how big of a flaw and to what extent we as consumers will put up with to avoid the hassle of returning and getting a replacement set. I actually think the new guys post is absolutely backwards, we PAY for the highest quality chip as advertised but don't recieve a chip that meets the claim, therefore we are not getting what we paid extra to get.

I believe that it has been argued about and twisted so much that the very simple fact of cost vs. quality vs. claim was lost. I was upset when I saw it and posted a fast post without searching first, but have calmed down and researched the issue level headed (I think). I don't think that expecting the chip to be flat, and maybe even flatter than others is unreasonable considering the price and hype.

Either that, or I am totally wrong and completelly missing the point, haven't decided yet.

We could be good friends LOL--- I agree totally and started the warped Paulson thread awhile ago-
It all comes down to " acceptability by the end user".

( using the compression chips we sell as an example)
Some people by my product because its priced reasonably-and they dont expect perfection-- they get good value for their money.
The chips stack perfectly- the color choices are limited- the fit/finish isnt perfectly honed- but its a good chip- well made- and a value
SOME people say- I would rather pay twice as much and buy the best- so they spend their money on, say Paulsons. There should be NO reason to ever think these chips wont stack- if they dont stack perfectly- then theyre warped. Theres no " in-between" here- theyre either TRUE or theyre not.

The person buying the chips posts pics- proud of his new purchase- and everyone says " nice chips"

Then someone comes out and says- hey- wait a moment- those chips are warped.
Then others say- well theyre not badly warped-- on and on and on- and the chips slowly become " accepted by the end user"

It doesnt change the fact theyre not getting the quality that has been shown to be achievable in the past- as evidenced by TRUELY made Paulsons-

Then we find the chips are now outsourced to a different country where labor is cheap- theres probably NO EPA to control pollution etc ( remember when IBM moved to Mexico to avoid EPA guidelines and polluted the crap out of every square inch around their plant)

Bottom line is: if I am spending my money for the BEST of the BEST- I dont accept a warped poker chip- I dont accept my ceramics printed off-center-

Not interested in guarantees, warranties, refund policies- make the product the way youve made it in the past and dont try and stick it to me with inferior quality-- I wont accept it.

If others DO accept it- then it becomes the norm, and down the road it will be rare to find a non warped poker chip.

This isnt rocket science-its machine work, tolerances and accuracy. ALL achievable.

So, if I see your post about your new XYZ ceramics or Clays- and I see theyre warped, the colors are bleeding, the images off centered-- expect me to say..
" hey- they didnt quite come out too good now did they" instead of " nice chips"

[jdunford]

I agree with you. If you read my posts in those threads, I thought it was unacceptable, too - and I only have a sample set! It's a matter of how important a little wobble is to you. It seems you're not satisfied (and I wouldn't be either), so I think you've already decided to send them back for a refund...

Some others have decided they like the "pros" of these chips (colours, new mold design vs. old "advertisement" mold, shaped inlays, etc.) enough that it outweighs this "con". But they're not for everyone.

As far as the manufacturer is concerned, the home market is tiny compared to the casino market. They don't cater to the home poker player... so unfortuatley I don't think the retailers are going to get anywhere by complaining. The best options for the clay chip afficionado are (1) to go with an older home-Paulson, (2) to go with a different brand of clay chip (BCC, ASM, etc.), or (3) try to find a set of reasonably-priced retired casino Paulsons in decent condition.