[Roc-A-Fella_1]

I am looking to increase my mediocre poker library as i only have HoH1. I am starting to get into limit and believe that it is easier to make money at limit. i wouldn't consider myself a total beginner, but nowhere near experienced. Many play the small .25/.50 games. Been considering a few books, but as there are now so many, i am not sure which book(s) are the ones to get and which are the ones to avoid. Which of the following do you guys recommend?

SSHE (pretty much the limit bible right?)
Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players
Winning Low-Limit Holdem
Middle Limit Holdem Poker
Advanced Limit Holdem Strategy
How Good is your Limit Holdem
Limit Hold'em: winning short-handed strategies
Hold'em on the Come: limit hold'em stratgey for drawing hands

As you can see, the list is extensive and i dont really feel like shelling out the cash to buy all of them, unless i hit the lottery. Thanks for all your help!

[mothmandan]

I don't have many Chiptalk posts but this advice is more from my experience on 2+2. I am a newb here so I don't know where you are at in your poker progression so I don't mean to insult your ability with my recommendations (FWIW you are probably a better player than I am).

I would go in the following progression:

Getting Started in Hold'em (Ed Miller) aka GSIH
Hold'em Poker (Sklansky)
Small Stakes Hold'em (Miller, et al.) aka SSH

If you have been playing a while then GSIH may not be required, but I have re-read it several times. It is all the basics of limit with some very basic NL and Tournament stuff at the end.

Hold'em Poker is a bit of a dated text with the publishing of GSIH, but it is still valid. It was pretty much the first book on Hold'em. I like the Sklansky Hand rankings in this book and it may have some worth if you don't think you want to read GSIH. This is pure limit poker and from what I recall it isn't too expensive. Hold'em Poker and GSIH are essentially quoted as "break-even" texts on 2+2.

Small Stakes Hold'em is the bible. If you think you have all your basic play down from starting hands, to semi-bluffs etc then you could start here. SSH recommends Hold'em Poker for the basics because it doesn't cover them. This is what will take you from break even to a winning player. I love this book. 'Nuff said.

I don't have experience with the other books but Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players is soon to be cracked. Check out the 2+2 forums for reviews on those books. Good luck

Dan's 2 cents (if this is even worth that)

[TheMightyJim2k]

that list is pretty solid. When you get through with those give stoxtrader's book Winning in Tough Hold'em Games a look. It really doesn't become applicable until you find tough games at 5/10 and up, but it gives a lot of great information anyway. It is probably the most thorough study of a tough poker game that has ever been done.

also don't expect to make a ton of money at low stakes limit for a long time. The rake is fairly high, the variance is huge compared to NL, and it will take you 10-20k hands to really learn the game.

if you are looking to learn a new game for the enjoyment I highly recommend limit. I love it and play it everyday, and it is how I make most of my money. But if I was going to start with someone who was interested primarily in making money I would tell them to 100% focus on low stakes NL cash games. The rake is lower, the players are worse, and the variance is lower. Plus when you get to mid-stakes limit online (5-10 to 15/30) game selection becomes manadatory because 2/3rds of the guys on the table are online pros grinding. Where at NL200 and NL400 I can still find lots of juicy games with people who are throwing their stacks away.

[Roc-A-Fella_1]

thanks dan and Jim; i have been playing for awhile, but this transition to limit is very different. I do like the challenge though and limit is an equally fun game. I plan on picking up the basics first to learn the ins and outs of limit. I have basic hold'em strategy down, but i think it needs fine tuning for limit play.

(btw, all help and opinions are worth much more than 2 cents, in fact, it's something money can't buy. well i guess you can with the cash game coaching)

[Roc-A-Fella_1]

What are the differences between SSH and HEFAP? I plan to eventually read both, but want to focus on one or a few. WLLHE is also a must read right?

[TheMightyJim2k]

SSHE is the bible for beating loose low stakes games. Mostly what you'll find at .25/.50 and 1/2 online (although sometimes the 1/2 are quite a bit tighter than the games described in the book). However the strategy and approach and tactic taught can be useful at all limits (learning how to count outs, approximating your pot odds, understanding implied odds, raising to clean up outs, waiting till the turn, etc etc etc).

HPFAP is primarily a text on how to beat relatively tigh passive games that you are likely to find at 20/40 plus in a casino. It also has a lot of great concepts and thoughts that will improve your game though. I think it is not super applicable online, but definitely worth the read.

WITHEG is a text on beating tough aggressive shorthanded games that you will find online starting at 5/10 (sometimes 3/6). Games where a lot of hands are contested headsup, often between a late position raiser and the blinds. Games where playing optimally, defending your blinds, making thin value bets, and tough call downs are all regular occurrences. Stox uses several players huge pokertracker databases to quantitatively back up and support his arguments. It is a very dense book. The concepts are pretty advanced. But it is a huge help in understanding how to beat these games. it will also give you a great edge on playing out of the blinds in med-small stakes games online (1/2 to 3/6). I don't think it is necessary reading until you start trying to tackle 3/6 and up, but it certainly won't hurt any.

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by Roc-A-Fella_1

WLLHE is also a must read right?

negatory. once you've worked through sshe and the other more difficult books on the list, wllhe is a waste of time. it's probably on par with the "getting started" book as far as difficulty, although not as good by a longshot.

[TheMightyJim2k]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

negatory. once you've worked through sshe and the other more difficult books on the list, wllhe is a waste of time. it's probably on par with the "getting started" book as far as difficulty, although not as good by a longshot.

yeah I didn't realize you were talking about that book. Yeah WLLHE is total crap, and a waste of money. You can find better beginner books (getting started by ed miller like jojo said) and you can find better low limit books. It really isn't good for anything.

[Roc-A-Fella_1]

thanks for all the help.

I have heard a lot about middle stakes holdem. I assume that is also geared to the bigger games 3/6 and above.

Has anyone read roy cooke's real poker II? I have read his columns in Card Player and enjoy the way he describes his hands. I am quite sure that all Cooke plays is Limit

[TheMightyJim2k]

Originally Posted by Roc-A-Fella_1

thanks for all the help.

I have heard a lot about middle stakes holdem. I assume that is also geared to the bigger games 3/6 and above.

Has anyone read roy cooke's real poker II? I have read his columns in Card Player and enjoy the way he describes his hands. I am quite sure that all Cooke plays is Limit

I think cooke's might be ok, but barry tennenbaum's book is much much better. He just released it this year, but I forget the title. I read about half of it at a Borders one day.

But all of the books mentioned above would probably serve you better. Tenenbaums book is geared towards relative tough mid stakes games in casinos (like 10/20 and up).