[yeltzen]

I'm starting to think it's a little overrated. Blasphemy, I know. But it seems like, when I'm short-stacked and use much tighter move-in requirements than HOH2 recommends, I do really well (last night, CT win, etc). When I really bear down and try to follow HOH2 and use the "looser" move-in requirements from the book, I'm out on the bubble.

Maybe I'm just using it wrong. This isn't exactly scientific research since I play tournaments all of once a month or so.

Discuss.

[Strange]

What's M & Q?

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by Strange

What's M & Q?

M = Your Stack/Starting Pot.
So, if the blinds are 50/100, the starting pot is 150. If you have 1500 chips, your M is 10. Basically, it indicates how many rounds you can go before getting blinded off. Useful, obviously, so you know when it's time to start making a move pre-flop.

Q = Your Stack : Average Stack
Haven't ever found this very useful.

[PhilTheThrill14]

I'm going to kinda, sorta agree with Yeltz here. Those books screwed me up good for a while. I have done better now that I re-read them and didn't try to follow them as strictly as I was, but instead used what they had as a reference for some ideas on how I can play certain situations (did that make any sense?).Then again, I'm more af a fell kind of player than a stricy numbers guy. I usually do some number crunching, but don't get too hung up on them.

[TheMightyJim2k]

I think the M and Q stuff is very valid when the blinds increase fairly rapidly or you are extremely short stacked. However I think he is a little over agressive for online in that you can pretty much assume if you are a small stack you are going to get called, so you should wait for at least a decent hand to jam.

Overall the concept is right, if you can force an opponent to fold by moving in, then that edge will increase your equity and you must take advantage of it when short-stacked before you blinded out. However I think Harrington fails to note the significant loss in fold equity of online compared to live play.

I have the feeling that his advice is perfect for LIVE MTT tourney's where players tend to be more tight-passive and will be less likely to defend blinds or call someone's all-in with mediocre hands.

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by PhilTheThrill14

I'm going to kinda, sorta agree with Yeltz here. Those books screwed me up good for a while. I have done better now that I re-read them and didn't try to follow them as strictly as I was, but instead used what they had as a reference for some ideas on how I can play certain situations (did that make any sense?).Then again, I'm more af a fell kind of player than a stricy numbers guy. I usually do some number crunching, but don't get too hung up on them.

This makes sense. I think the book is better just as a "here is what you should think about" guide, because I think some of the example problems are a little suspect with the hands he recommends moving in with. I should reread the chapter to make sure I know what the hell I'm talking about, but I remember reading it last time and thinking some of the plays were bizarre as opposed to HOH1, which I couldn't find much of anything to argue with.

[Seitz333]

Originally Posted by yeltzen

M = Your Stack/Starting Pot.
So, if the blinds are 50/100, the starting pot is 150. If you have 1500 chips, your M is 10. Basically, it indicates how many rounds you can go before getting blinded off. Useful, obviously, so you know when it's time to start making a move pre-flop.

Q = Your Stack : Average Stack
Haven't ever found this very useful.

Sorry Yeltzen, usually I agree with you but this time you are waaaayyy off.

M = James Bond's boss.
Q = The guy who makes all of James Bond's cools gadgets

Chuck

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by TheMightyJim2k

I think the M and Q stuff is very valid when the blinds increase fairly rapidly or you are extremely short stacked. However I think he is a little over agressive for online in that you can pretty much assume if you are a small stack you are going to get called, so you should wait for at least a decent hand to jam.

Overall the concept is right, if you can force an opponent to fold by moving in, then that edge will increase your equity and you must take advantage of it when short-stacked before you blinded out. However I think Harrington fails to note the significant loss in fold equity of online compared to live play.

I have the feeling that his advice is perfect for LIVE MTT tourney's where players tend to be more tight-passive and will be less likely to defend blinds or call someone's all-in with mediocre hands.

Yeah, good call, I should have said that I was talking mostly about online tournaments. I've never played in a live tournament that had more than like 20 people in it, so I can't really comment on the play there. But, online, people are calling you with A2+, K6+, Q8+ (correctly most of the time), so I just don't think pushing with Q6o just because you're the first one in is that great. I understand the concept, but it works all but one time. I would rather eat another round of blinds and get a hand that could be a favorite than pushing and praying that I don't get called.

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by Seitz333

Sorry Yeltzen, usually I agree with you but this time you are waaaayyy off.

M = James Bond's boss.
Q = The guy who makes all of James Bond's cools gadgets

Chuck

God, I'm so stupid! No wonder this hasn't been working for me!

[Jambine]

Originally Posted by Strange

What's M & Q?

M = My money
Q = My money that people have not given to me yet