[yeltzen]

I'm realizing that SSH no longer cuts in low-limit online games. If any of you have read both, do you recommend one over the other?

[bolgenmod]

Originally Posted by yeltzen

I'm realizing that SSH no longer cuts in low-limit online games. If any of you have read both, do you recommend one over the other?

Middle Limit Hold'em is well worth reading. There are lots of hand examples and such. The main problem with it is that some of the advice is a little weak-tight.

HEPFAP is good, but it works better in tighter games -- you can't make moves on oblivious players like those at the low-limits. And it also assumes many fewer players in an average pot than you find at the low-limits. That said, HEPFAP used to be the most widely read book -- the "Advanced Players" part of the title was especially attractive to the idiots who were sure they were advanced and thus misapplied lots of the advice.

I love to read the poker books (obviously) and so have read most of them. And I always find plenty of good things in the good books. Both of these are very good books.

But I don't understand why you think SSHE doesn't work -- I would love to hear your thoughts on that! Yes, it is a VERY high-variance style, but if you cut out some of the pf raising that only builds a huge pot (I don't care if it is +EV, it also ties the weakies with their crazy hands to the pot), I think the SSHE advice is mostly gold.

[SpaceMonkey]

I'm a big fan of middle limit holdem. Especially for experienced players that know when to alter from a couple of the suggestions.

[yeltzen]

It's not that I don't think SSHE advice is wrong or anything, it's just that the games it applies to are becoming more and more rare. Even on Party, I can rarely find a $2/4 table that consistently has more than 4 players seeing the flop. SSHE isn't going to help me much in those games.

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by yeltzen

It's not that I don't think SSHE advice is wrong or anything, it's just that the games it applies to are becoming more and more rare. Even on Party, I can rarely find a $2/4 table that consistently has more than 4 players seeing the flop. SSHE isn't going to help me much in those games.

i agree (moderately) with your thoughts on sshe. i think the loose game recommendations are actually worthless online. the tight game recommendations are usually pretty good, though.

as far as the other two books, i like middle-limit okay. as for NLHEFAP, i'll just say that i think it's a very good thing that sklansky started co-writing his hold 'em books with guys that can write. i find his stuff written alone often unreadable. starting with sshe, and continuing with the HOH series (cowritten with robertie) and then nlhetap, all of a sudden the books become readable.

[yeltzen]

Originally Posted by jojobinks

i agree (moderately) with your thoughts on sshe. i think the loose game recommendations are actually worthless online. the tight game recommendations are usually pretty good, though.

as far as the other two books, i like middle-limit okay. as for NLHEFAP, i'll just say that i think it's a very good thing that sklansky started co-writing his hold 'em books with guys that can write. i find his stuff written alone often unreadable. starting with sshe, and continuing with the HOH series (cowritten with robertie) and then nlhetap, all of a sudden the books become readable.

Yeah, I should have specified I meant online only. This past week in the B&M 2/4 games, there were like 7-9 people per flop, so I would have been lost without SSHE.

I think the tight game recommendations are even a little loose online. I find I can't see flops for one bet as often anymore, either. That is, I limp from MP with what ends up being a ton of hands, only to pay 2 bets to see the flop. I think the recommendations need a WLLH "if X number of players have limped" stipulation added on to make them more useful. Even still, everyone should get the book if only for the evaluating the flop section.

Sad thing is I had both of these books, but figured I'd never need them since I would never play limits higher than $4/8. Oops. I guess I'll get MLHE and go from there.