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View Poll Results: Should Garyon's design have a theme???
YES - I like "the Rubicon" 18 31.58%
NO - Keep it Generic (text to be determined later) 39 68.42%
Voters: 57. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-27-2008, 03:47 AM
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30¢ Compression Clay from PI - Design Contest Theme or Generic

Hello,

The short version is Joe at Palm Imports will let us steal his Compression Clay Great Wall chips (also known as Wallsons) for just 30¢ each! The only catch is that we have to steal 50,000 of them. To help make this project a success, Joe is also sponsoring a design contest to come up with a label that will appeal to enough people to make this happen. The main thread for this contest is located here;
http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/palmim...n-clay-pi.html

We are in the final round of the design contest (Round 4) and are down to two designs. Feen666 has a great themed design "Hotel La Siesta" and Garyon has come up with a design that was generic but now there is a discussion about it having a theme as well "the Rubicon". The discussion can be followed on the Design Contest thread;
http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/group-...-new-post.html

This poll is specifically in regards to Garyon's design. Should it be themed "the Rubicon" or remain generic. Please remeber that the ultimate goal is to sell 50,000 chips! If the decsion os to remain generic there will be continued discussion on the final text.

Ideas for generic text include, but are not limited to;
- Limited Edition
- ChipTalk Cardroom
- Private Cardroom
- Special Limited Resereve
- Limited Special Private ChipTalk Cardroom Reserve Edition (just kidding) >grin<
- NO identifying text

Because there has already been some heated discussion on this topic, I will break with tradition and make this poll 'private'.

I will be voting in this poll,
Shane

Last edited by DiceCaller : 05-27-2008 at 07:57 AM. Reason: addendum
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Old 05-27-2008, 08:42 AM
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Re: 30¢ Compression Clay from PI - Design Contest Theme or Generic

Generic chips are going to sell more when marketed to the public. We have to remember that the general public may be turned off by a a design that incorporates "Chiptalk" into it. I think we should keep it simple - Limited Edition or Private Cardroom.

For the record, I like the "Rubicon" theme. However, it goes against what this group buy is trying to do - design a chip with mass appeal. Joe needs to be able to sell these chips in mass to make this worthwile. Creating a themed chip that alienates a percentage of interested buyers should be nipped in the bud.
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:19 AM
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Re: 30¢ Compression Clay from PI - Design Contest Theme or Generic

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24tex24 View Post
Generic chips are going to sell more when marketed to the public. We have to remember that the general public may be turned off by a a design that incorporates "Chiptalk" into it. I think we should keep it simple - Limited Edition or Private Cardroom.

For the record, I like the "Rubicon" theme. However, it goes against what this group buy is trying to do - design a chip with mass appeal. Joe needs to be able to sell these chips in mass to make this worthwile. Creating a themed chip that alienates a percentage of interested buyers should be nipped in the bud.
It's not just about what will sell 50k in chips to the public, but what might sell 50k chips here. That's the true way to mitigate Joe's risks. Aren't we ultimately trying to determine if going the Rubicon way will cause a buyer to pull out or vice versa?
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:37 AM
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Re: 30¢ Compression Clay from PI - Design Contest Theme or Generic

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrcashflow View Post
It's not just about what will sell 50k in chips to the public, but what might sell 50k chips here. That's the true way to mitigate Joe's risks. Aren't we ultimately trying to determine if going the Rubicon way will cause a buyer to pull out or vice versa?

Personally I think there are two different scenarios here.

1. Selling to general public with only a passing interest in chips.
2. Selling to CT members i.e. Chip Enthusiasts.

I truly, respectfully disagree with the argument that the attachment of the "Rubicon" name and story will hinder sales to the general public. Market research proves that "cool" sells. Perception is everything. We wrap junk cars in cool bodies and they sell, dust busters, vacuums, shoes, garden tools, etc etc ... you name it. We (ie general consumer population) buy things that LOOK cool or have some COOL factor to it. Something that makes us FEEL GOOD about the purchase.

Also, think about it ... nearly every brand of anything that sells something ... has a tag line, a moto, or whatever. "Just Do It" (Nike) , "Have yourself a break today" (McDonalds), "Your Move" (Reebok), "Got Milk" (milk), "Live Life by the Gallon" (Dodge), etc etc ... Because it works.

Selling to afficienados and enthusiasts is a different story. They are less concerned with clever marketing as their interest is deeper into the product itself and have already developed their own reasons for interest. They don't need marketing to capture their interest and to make the product special. As CTr's, we have already decided what's important to us about chips, what we like and don't like. We already have defined what's "special" to us about poker chips.

I would argue that ... if we are looking to sell 50K chips to CT members or chip enthusiasts, a "Limited Edition", "Private Stock", etc may do better than a more thematic concept. However, I believe that if the goal is to sell to a casually interested consumer audience, a story and tag such as Felt Lizard proposes with "The Rubicons" will be a significant attraction, as it transforms these standard ( boring? )"Wallson" chips into something "special". Something people can FEEL good about. It may discourage some ... but will likely attract many more that would not have otherwise even noticed them.


Just my 2c ... I will be happy to mock up whatever people want to see, so long as it doesn't totally change the concept of the design. I am not sure exactly who the 50,000 sales goal is targeted at so I selected my PERSONAL preference in this poll, although from an aesthetic point of view there really isn't too much difference. For the record ... I am a sucker for marketing and I did select "The Rubicons" ... I eat up the "Cool Factor" like candy I paid $6 for the coolest looking toothbrush yesterday!! I'm sure it works much better



Just a Reminder : I have always indicated that the "CHIPTALK CARDROOM" that was in place earlier was simply a placeholder for whatever the community decided they would replace it with. I am trying to mock up as many of the suggestions as I can so that we can see the differences, and so that as many ideas as possible, get as equal and as fair an opportunity to be seen and considered. I just don't want anyone to think that because something gets mocked up that it necessarily represents the final design.

Personally the text is, for me, a very secondary issue. Ultimately these chips will LOOK similar regardless of what text is used..
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Old 05-27-2008, 10:53 AM
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Re: 30¢ Compression Clay from PI - Design Contest Theme or Generic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Garyon View Post
I would argue that ... if we are looking to sell 50K chips to CT members or chip enthusiasts, a "Limited Edition", "Private Stock", etc may do better than a more thematic concept. However, I believe that if the goal is to sell to a casually interested consumer audience, a story and tag such as Felt Lizard proposes with "The Rubicons" will be a significant attraction, as it transforms these standard ( boring? )"Wallson" chips into something "special". Something people can FEEL good about. It may discourage some ... but will likely attract many more that would not have otherwise even noticed them
Gary, I completely agree with what you're saying. My main point was that we ideally should seek to sell this chip out here first in order to reduce Joe's risk and think about the public second. If we could sell 50k here using a generic theme we most definitely should do that. If it's apparent to Joe CTers won't come anywhere near the 50k mark then he will need to make the decision to override the theme of the chip. Of note, going with "The Rubicons" theme doesn't cancel my pending order, neither does the ChipTalk Cardroom.
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:13 AM
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Re: 30¢ Compression Clay from PI - Design Contest Theme or Generic

Since we are all entitled to our 2 cents worth....

Here's my pre-mumble....

I voted generic not because I didn't like the Rubicon theme per se but because I felt that the way the Rubicon angle was going was a little half-baked. I mean I voted for the siesta's precisely because I thought they were the best executed theme chip. But obviously, when we get to themes it becomes very subjective and difficult to get "critical mass."

Please don't get me wrong. Gary's "generic" is top-of-the-line work. But if we are going with the Rubicon theme, then I strongly believe we should go all the way with all the bells and whistles of a rubicon-theme chip. That's not how this was unfolding.

Also, I've said all along that my primary interest is in the NCV (which is why I pleaded for a second NCV before). And while the generic text are "spaceholders", for the NCV chip it is "THE THEME". The denominated chip are not going to have RUBICON right in the middle of the chip. The NCV chip will.

Peace to all...Mike
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:17 AM
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Re: 30¢ Compression Clay from PI - Design Contest Theme or Generic

I have no clue where this group buy is at.
If you guys figured out the final design, please open a "gathering interest" thread along with the final mock ups. thanks.
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:22 AM
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Re: 30¢ Compression Clay from PI - Design Contest Theme or Generic

I voted Rubicon as well.

Functional reasons:

1. It being going above and beyond the generic text that we've already seen on so many other chipsets out there.

2. I like the irony that it's named after a historic river. The "river" being meaningful in poker.

3. It's simple, yet epic, backstory is something that card players can relate to.

But again, I'll be getting a set regardless.

Nuff said.

Last edited by Felt Lizard : 05-27-2008 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 05-27-2008, 11:24 AM
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Re: 30¢ Compression Clay from PI - Design Contest Theme or Generic

Quote:
Originally Posted by miket88 View Post
Also, I've said all along that my primary interest is in the NCV (which is why I pleaded for a second NCV before). And while the generic text are "spaceholders", for the NCV chip it is "THE THEME". The denominated chip are not going to have RUBICON right in the middle of the chip. The NCV chip will.

Good point. Another issue to hash out (?) ... should we show "NCV" or the "NAME" on the ncv chip? The design had originally started with "NCV" but I had several requests to remove it and put the "Name" there. Perhaps this is a point to take another look at?
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Old 05-27-2008, 01:06 PM
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Re: 30¢ Compression Clay from PI - Design Contest Theme or Generic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vince View Post
I have no clue where this group buy is at.
If you guys figured out the final design, please open a "gathering interest" thread along with the final mock ups. thanks.
Hi Vince, to aid you and any other interested member who hasn't had the time to follow this in detail, here's the story so far:

The selection process is down to the final 2. A poll to select the winning design is here:

http://www.chiptalk.net/forum/palmim...round-4-a.html

Joe has indicated that, although only the winning design will have the labels made in China (@30c ea.), he is also considering doing a run of the second place design via his labelling equipment (price TBA but probably around 50c ea.)

This thread is a seperate issue to do with a debate that is raging over Garyon's design. Gary always noted that the text in his early mock-ups ("Chiptalk Cardroom") was just a 'placeholder' and that he encouraged concensus on what to put there.

Felt Lizard suggested an idea for the text ("The Rubicon") and provided some very forcefully presented background on the idea behind this 'theme'. It has been very polarizing - it appears that a lot of particpants have strong views one way or the other (pro or anti Rubicon). However, suffice to say that most of the pro-Rubicon camp (myself incl.) would still buy these chips no matter what the label is, while some of the anti-Rubicon camp won't buy them if the Rubicon theme prevails.

Further complicating things is that we've been trying to ensure that we 'do right' by Joe and produce a design that he will have good prospects on further sales with. As some have noted, this potentially causes conflicting objectives:

1. Preference of people in the Group Buy, versus
2. Producing a chip with the widest possible appeal.

Short answer - this thread is a side-line to the main event, however, the debate is appropriate and healthy.

I imagine that we're a few days away from a registration of interest thread.
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