[chipper57AA]

I'm not going to say that PS is rigged, nor do I say I have any concrete evidence showing that rivers on PS are any worse than any other site.

What I will say is that over the last month on PS, I have seen more "miracles" than I have seen over the course of the whole last year on PS.

I use PokerTracker and perhaps I should examine the number of hands that fit this situation and compare it to true odds of hitting that river.

If those numbers are way out of proportion, then ya maybe its time to play elsewhere.

If you ran an online poker site, what would your incentive to giving out more miracle river cards?

1) Certainly in raked tables you want more people to stay in the hand longer and thus get more rake money.

2) By giving the poorer hand the win, you are presumably giving a worse player more money and therefore he will lose it much faster than letting a better player keep it and cashing out.

3) By spreading the wealth around, its harder for anyone to make money and thus keeps more money in the site, which leads to more rake money.

At least this is what Oliver Stone told me...

[Pavel6969]

I will never play for money online for one reason, it can be rigged. Not saying it is, but it can be. Sure a live game can be to, but that is much much harder.

I played free pokerstars and tend to dominate, which is easy since people will bet wildly with their chips since it isn't real money. But it is the best learning experience you can get that is free. And even on the free site, the river kills someone at least once every 20 hands or so. Happens to me and for me usually once a tornament.

Now I sure do with these 1,300,000 chips I have on poker stars was real... :cool:

[vrecksler]

I have only played online for money twice for the two CT tournaments, but I have watched my brother play on PS and PP and I think another reason why garbage hands seem to be winning more than they should is because more people are playing garbage hands.

Whether you start with AK or 72, the odds of pairing a card are exactly the same, and the odds of hitting two pair, trips, a full boat, etc. are all the same. Obviously the lower cards have less value but if people keep playing them they are going to hit nice flops too; in the long run they will go broke but the more and more players decide to gamble with garbage, the more it appears that garbage hits.

Everyone notices when they have AK and the flop misses them, yet when you have 64 in the BB and the flop misses it is the way it should be.

I cannot comment on the randomness of any poker site, but I would think that with the money they rake in they would do anything to jeopardize their cash cow.

[dimperdoo]

A short detail of my online poker experience:
PP
Party Poker play money - till it wasn't a challenge | Party Poker real money - in 1 day I burned through $100 like nothing (nothing connected-mediocre pockets) I won't play PP for real money for a while...
PS
PokerStars play money - once the challenge was gone at PP play money, PS presented a new challenge, which quickly became no challenge | PokerStars real money - in two days I labored over $100 till I found my keel and actually started treading water. Now, another $100 deposited and 2 months later, I'm at $160.

My summary, As I've gotten better at poker, my "hold" on my play has gotten better. There's a logical progression. However, much like I don't like 10 J (suited or no) because of previous beats, I don't really want to play money on PP.

As for rivers? See the "AA sucks" thread. I hate getting outdrawn when I start off ahead (especially by someone who "shouldn't" be in the pot) as much as the next guy. But, how many hands do you see go back and forth on TV?

I figure the online sites for being "righteous." Poker is a fickle game. (luck's no lady) But, believe me you, I've also seen some BAD bad beats - unbelievable ones....

[d_p]

Originally Posted by chipper57AA

I'm not going to say that PS is rigged, nor do I say I have any concrete evidence showing that rivers on PS are any worse than any other site.

What I will say is that over the last month on PS, I have seen more "miracles" than I have seen over the course of the whole last year on PS.

I use PokerTracker and perhaps I should examine the number of hands that fit this situation and compare it to true odds of hitting that river.

If those numbers are way out of proportion, then ya maybe its time to play elsewhere.

Unless you have many, many times the number of hands as there are possible poker hands, your stats don't mean anything. Really all you can do is check your hole cards dealt and compare those to the averages and even then, you will need a sampling of > 10,000 to really see what is going on.

You really need to data-mine random tables for a long period of time to get some real data.

Seriously, I see bad-beats all the time in live poker too. In my "home game circle" we even have a term for it... "I've just been Chris'ed" because this guy named Chris always makes stupid calls and ends up hitting on the turn or the river. Really? Always? Well, obviously no, but it's happened enough to where we coined a phrase. Is that game rigged for wild flops, turns and rivers? Is Chris cheating? Of course not! We are just "whining" because we didn't win and the crappy poker player is taking all of our chips. In one hand, my wife hit a full house on the flop against the host who was all-in. Obviously he let out a moan. Then his moan turned to elation when the turn made him a better full house!

I see it at my local card room in tournaments all the time too.

[thebrokenone]

The real question is -- what the hell is he doing betting, then calling a raise, w/ just 6s looking at a board like that? Oh yeah, it was a play money T2000 on PS... I'm surprised he wasn't all-in pre-flop.

Seriously though, why would PS rig the play money tournies/tables?

[ilyu2]

Ok ok I've played PP/Ps/home games and from all three I.ve learned Poker is Poker and just like any other game your gonna find the miracle play!!! Rigged!!! Cheater!!! Nope it's just the way the cards lay out. Yea I've gotten sooo mad I've yelled/ pouted/stomped my feet and worse but in all realty it comes down to just pure life. I did PP for play money and found that most of those players are stupid. No way would I put real $$$ there. I play on Ps play money and found most players were a little tighter. Got my game settled in and started playing for real $$$ there. I bought in for $25 and am up to over $80 with all the tourneys and regular play {A WHOLE LOT} I've done in the last month. I'm I gonna get rich on this HELL NO!!! But am I having fun winning now and then making some new friends and enemy's and learning something. Yes .

[d_p]

Originally Posted by ilyu2

Yea I've gotten sooo mad I've yelled/ pouted/stomped my feet and worse but in all realty it comes down to just pure life.

*gasp*

Please, oh please tell me you didn't kick your dog!

[hachkc]

I don't believe online poker is rigged either. I've taken and given bad beats before but I usually chalk it up to that's poker.

Online you see a lot more questionable hands being played (especially at low limits) which means you'll see more bad beats as the river brings that miracle card. Hell, in one session on UB I hit quads on 2 out of 3 hands and got quads a third time within a 45 minute span. If its rigged, it was rigged for me that night. Just imagine what everyone was saying at the chat window when I showed my third set of quads.

My biggest concern about online poker isn't whether or not the sites are rigged but whether the players are working together. That's much harder to catch and much more worrisome. This is one of the reasons I tend to play lower limits online than I would in a live game. I'm hoping that if folks are cheating, they are going to cheat at the larger stakes tables before they'd work the smaller stakes tables.

[d_p]

Originally Posted by hachkc

My biggest concern about online poker isn't whether or not the sites are rigged but whether the players are working together. That's much harder to catch and much more worrisome. This is one of the reasons I tend to play lower limits online than I would in a live game. I'm hoping that if folks are cheating, they are going to cheat at the larger stakes tables before they'd work the smaller stakes tables.

I tend to agree with you about avoiding it at lower levels. But then I also wonder if lower levels would be the better place to do that. Simply because the "less experienced" players down (like me) at the lower tables would not be as quick to pick up on it as the more seasoned folk are.