[99%evil]

I played in a $5 +.50 single table SNG last night. It was the most solid $5 table I'd ever seen, not just 2 or 3 players, everyone played tight, but made some great calls. I usually start my games by playing a bit wreckless to try and feel out the table, I found out quick that there was no stealing anything. I settled down quickly and unfortunately came in 4th, I had a very difficult time bluffing at this table, are the lower level games getting to be more work on PS? It used to be pretty typical I could come in the money every other game by being patient and taking out the over agressive all-in players. So far since I've deposited cash I've played 3 SNG and come in 2nd once, not a good start, but I guess I try changing up the game plan and just keep being patient and strike when the time is right. I played live this weekend in a shorthanded live game and won twice, I can't wait to go to Vegas next month...

[d_p]

Originally Posted by 99%evil

I played in a $5 +.50 single table SNG last night. It was the most solid $5 table I'd ever seen, not just 2 or 3 players, everyone played tight, but made some great calls. I usually start my games by playing a bit wreckless to try and feel out the table, I found out quick that there was no stealing anything. I settled down quickly and unfortunately came in 4th, I had a very difficult time bluffing at this table, are the lower level games getting to be more work on PS? It used to be pretty typical I could come in the money every other game by being patient and taking out the over agressive all-in players. So far since I've deposited cash I've played 3 SNG and come in 2nd once, not a good start, but I guess I try changing up the game plan and just keep being patient and strike when the time is right. I played live this weekend in a shorthanded live game and won twice, I can't wait to go to Vegas next month...

I've noticed that it can be different depending on the time you play also. Evenings (west-coast) are usually when I see the loosest play. The later into the night it gets, you seem to get the more hard-core players and the games tighten-up. I'll usually do the $10 SnG's earlier in the evening then switch down to the $5 games the later it gets.

[w16227]

Originally Posted by 99%evil

I played in a $5 +.50 single table SNG last night. It was the most solid $5 table I'd ever seen, not just 2 or 3 players, everyone played tight, but made some great calls. I usually start my games by playing a bit wreckless to try and feel out the table, I found out quick that there was no stealing anything. I settled down quickly and unfortunately came in 4th, I had a very difficult time bluffing at this table, are the lower level games getting to be more work on PS? It used to be pretty typical I could come in the money every other game by being patient and taking out the over agressive all-in players. So far since I've deposited cash I've played 3 SNG and come in 2nd once, not a good start, but I guess I try changing up the game plan and just keep being patient and strike when the time is right. I played live this weekend in a shorthanded live game and won twice, I can't wait to go to Vegas next month...

Moving from play money to cash online can be difficult. Your startegy will need to be broken out and relearned. Play money - picking up AA or KK and pushing all in immediately will ususally get at least 2 callers. Online - you need a LOT more deception to your game. In the online game - you need to relearn how to build the stack- and keep it. The chips do not always fall your way in big stacks like play money - people will actually fold poor holdings (ok - not always).

Cash vs play money = HUGE difference. $5 vs $10 = smaller difference.

You highlighted one of the reasons to have a decent bankroll for the level you want to play - you will be card dead in many of the SnGs - and cill not cash all of the time. If you have a good disciplined game - you will make $$$ in the long run. Do not get desperate - and enter a $10 or $20 to "try and get it back quick" - as this will only drain your cash faster.

Pokerstars probably has the toughest tournament players out there - when compared to same buyin levels at other sites. They also have (IMO) the best structure as even the SnGs start with 1500 in chips - and timed blinds. Partypokers $5 SnG play closer to "play money" competition, but the chip/blind structure and increased vig ($1 vs $.50 for stars) work against the decent player.

[Danontilt]

PS sucks. Pocket pair are useless and people are always killed on rivers. I would stay away.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Danontilt

PS sucks. Pocket pair are useless and people are always killed on rivers. I would stay away.

Very analytical. I think I'm going to close my account now. Thanks for the heads up.

[SteveA]

Well I got my ass handed to me!

So far I have played 7 games and placed ITM twice - 1st and 2nd.

The others I busted out:

- called all in KK and was up against AA, busted out.
- went all in with top 2 pair, opponent had a boat, busted out.
- bluffed by betting big all the way to the turn and checked the river. opponent checked with bottom pair. This crippled my stack.
- went all in with 2 pair, opponent had 4 of a kind, busted out.
- went all in with middle pair against an aggressive big stack player who was pushing everyone around...he actually had top pair this time.

I think I'm playing too loose, and relying on my 2 pair's too much, or maybe slow playing too pair was killing me (it did on the full boat hand). I can only recall one time where two pair has held up in an all in situation.

For the 2 games where I came in the money, I thought I dominated pretty well. I was patient and waited for the cards. Early in the tourneys I went all in 3 times on straight/flush/over pair draws where I had tons of outs, and got paid off 2/3 times. When I placed first I got lucky flopping the nut straight. When I placed second, I had a 4:1 chip lead and lost a coin flip...then it went down hill. After that I relied on my top 2 pair again and lost a huge pot to his higher pocket cards - this crippled me. Then I went all in with A2 suited and he had AA! He also took a long time to call so I think he was taking a screenshot...bastard!!

The quality of play is excellent (for what I'm used to). Only seen one jerkoff going all in early with crap cards (Q10o).

I hope I can improve.

[Eldog]

you think its easier to build up your BR playing tournies or playing in some low limit cash games like .50/1 or 1/2 ? Ive been trying to build mine up for afew weeks now and have been having alot of success playing .50/1 or 1/2. Lots of players at this level just call and chase everything so if you start with solid hands you ususaly win. I did have a small run over the weekend where it seemed like everyone was sucking out on me but i guess that happens.

[w16227]

Originally Posted by SteveA

Well I got my ass handed to me!

So far I have played 7 games and placed ITM twice - 1st and 2nd.

The others I busted out:

- called all in KK and was up against AA, busted out.
- went all in with top 2 pair, opponent had a boat, busted out.
- bluffed by betting big all the way to the turn and checked the river. opponent checked with bottom pair. This crippled my stack.
- went all in with 2 pair, opponent had 4 of a kind, busted out.
- went all in with middle pair against an aggressive big stack player who was pushing everyone around...he actually had top pair this time.

I think I'm playing too loose, and relying on my 2 pair's too much, or maybe slow playing too pair was killing me (it did on the full boat hand). I can only recall one time where two pair has held up in an all in situation.

For the 2 games where I came in the money, I thought I dominated pretty well. I was patient and waited for the cards. Early in the tourneys I went all in 3 times on straight/flush/over pair draws where I had tons of outs, and got paid off 2/3 times. When I placed first I got lucky flopping the nut straight. When I placed second, I had a 4:1 chip lead and lost a coin flip...then it went down hill. After that I relied on my top 2 pair again and lost a huge pot to his higher pocket cards - this crippled me. Then I went all in with A2 suited and he had AA! He also took a long time to call so I think he was taking a screenshot...bastard!!

The quality of play is excellent (for what I'm used to). Only seen one jerkoff going all in early with crap cards (Q10o).

I hope I can improve.

Not too bad - 2/7 ITM with a 1st and second is actually a decent start. One more cash - and you would have made a profit, no? (since stars only has 9 players I do not know the payout structure off the top of my head).

Another thing that you will see at the stars SnG is much more slowplaying/trapping. You may get one or 2 aggresisve players - but the majority that I have seen are very passive with FPS (fancy play syndrom). You want to have position on these guys.

Another recommendation - resist the urge to play multiple games at the same time. EVEN IF YOU ARE USED TO DOING THIS AT THE PLAY MONEY TABLES. The texture of the cash games is sooooo different you can really hose yourself. Take some time to make sure you can beat the game consistently before trying this.

good luck

[PawNtheSandman]

Beware of the River.
I noticed PokerStars has alot of rivers that make you scratch your head.
Lucky for me they have helped more than they have hurt me.

[w16227]

Originally Posted by Eldog

you think its easier to build up your BR playing tournies or playing in some low limit cash games like .50/1 or 1/2 ? Ive been trying to build mine up for afew weeks now and have been having alot of success playing .50/1 or 1/2. Lots of players at this level just call and chase everything so if you start with solid hands you ususaly win. I did have a small run over the weekend where it seemed like everyone was sucking out on me but i guess that happens.

Depends upon the game- and your game. The following is based on several "rules of thumb" from rgp, cardplayer articles, and other general references. YMMV.

Pros (or good amateurs) earn ~ 2BB/hr (give or take). Proper low limit (loose) game strategy can increase this. Adding the greater # of hands/hr - and you could potentially make 6BB+/hr at a ring game. LEts be conservatine and say that 5BB/hr is attainable - by a GOOD player. For .5/1 this is a $5/hr gain. $1/2 would be $10.

A decent expectation for a SnG player would be averaging one buyin profit for each tournament entered. For $5 SnG - this makes the take a ltlle better than $5 /hr (the real per hour take should be greater since each SnG does not take a full hour to play as you will bust early many times).

So - if you are a decent player, .5/1 limit and $5 SnGs should produce a similar result. BUT - the bankroll requirements are different for tournament vs limit games due to swings. Using 20x buyin and 200xBB estimates - you should have $100 for the $5 SnG and $200 for the .5/1 limit game. The swings are different due to the different structure of the games.

For a beginner - I would recommend the SnGs for a while. If you get a decent run of cards - you can bump the roll quickly. If not - you only lose $5 a pop - and can get many hands out of the game and LEARN. In a .5/1 game, you could actually lose $12 on a single hand. It takes a lot of practice to get the limit game up to a 5BB/hr zone. If you like the limit game - play the limit SnGs. In fact - the limit SnGs are not a bad place to start anyway. you will last longer than in the NL ones - and get valuable experience.

If you really want to improve your game for "no" real cash risk - invest in Turbo Texas Holdem (for limit play) or Poki Poker Academy (will do both limit and NL ring and SnG structures). Both are MUCH better than play money for learning.