Round #2 - Who's the donk?

whataboutj · #11 (**permalink**) 05-01-2008, 05:27 PM

While I agree that the other players bets and calls were donktastic to say the least --- to answer your original question -- I disagree with the shove play with KK. KK is obviously a very strong hand but it's not AA and I have seen too many players at the lower buy in games stay in or go all in with hands ranging from AK (suited or not) to Ax suited, as well as the lower poacket pairs like you saw. How many times have you seen or had KK or AA sucked out on by those types of hands? Why purposely ris the entire tourney on one hand when you could have called and re-assesed after the flop. Especially with more than one player in the hand and one has already repped a strong hand (even though it wasn't as strong as they wanted ti to seem).
Just my opinion though it sounds like most everyone else seems to agree with the shove
J

Irish Se7en · #12 (**permalink**) 05-01-2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JM

Easy explanation here Mike, its a $3 SNG.

A decent player would have tossed those 10s in a heartbeat after all that action in front of him.

There's a reason why dudu_crvg has a fishbowl next to his name on sharkscope. This time he got lucky.

PhilTheThrill14 · #13 (**permalink**) 05-01-2008, 07:21 PM

His preflop is fine - if I can get KK and get someone to put all their money in with Ax - I'm gonna do pretty darn good. You want those people to call!

Irish Se7en · #14 (**permalink**) 05-01-2008, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whataboutj

-- I disagree with the shove play with KK. KK is obviously a very strong hand but it's not AA and I have seen too many players at the lower buy in games stay in or go all in with hands ranging from AK (suited or not) to Ax suited, as well as the lower poacket pairs like you saw. Why purposely ris the entire tourney on one hand when you could have called and re-assesed after the flop.
Just my opinion though it sounds like most everyone else seems to agree with the shove
J

I'm not sure how else he should have played this hand. He raised to 200, was reraised (550) and you believe he should have just called at that point

I believe he made the right play but unfortunately Mr. Ten(s) decided to call the all in and sucked out. Reload.

Then again, the decisions are easily made when the buy in is low.

StevenH72 · #15 (**permalink**) 05-01-2008, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whataboutj

While I agree that the other players bets and calls were donktastic to say the least --- to answer your original question -- I disagree with the shove play with KK. KK is obviously a very strong hand but it's not AA and I have seen too many players at the lower buy in games stay in or go all in with hands ranging from AK (suited or not) to Ax suited, as well as the lower poacket pairs like you saw. How many times have you seen or had KK or AA sucked out on by those types of hands? Why purposely ris the entire tourney on one hand when you could have called and re-assesed after the flop. Especially with more than one player in the hand and one has already repped a strong hand (even though it wasn't as strong as they wanted ti to seem).
Just my opinion though it sounds like most everyone else seems to agree with the shove
J

Why wouldn't you want to get it all in pre-flop when a vast majority of the time you are ahead? So you get sucked out on sometimes, you cant look at a single hand/tourney result to determine the right move, if it is the right move long term, its the right move, whether you lose or win.

whataboutj · #16 (**permalink**) 05-01-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StevenH72

Why wouldn't you want to get it all in pre-flop when a vast majority of the time you are ahead? So you get sucked out on sometimes, you cant look at a single hand/tourney result to determine the right move, if it is the right move long term, its the right move, whether you lose or win.

For a cash game I agree with you 100%. In a tourney I disagree. When you can reload to play again and get your money back I say move all in. In a tourney when your out- your out (unless it's a rebuy game). Why risk your tournament life when you don't have to. If a K comes off on the flop then push - if not play accordingly. The "long term" theory is all well and good in cash games, but in tourney's I tend to try and play more pot control poker (doesn't always work of course).

Again it's just my opinion and style so take it for what it's worth. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would push in that situation but not me
J

PhilTheThrill14 · #17 (**permalink**) 05-02-2008, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whataboutj

For a cash game I agree with you 100%. In a tourney I disagree. When you can reload to play again and get your money back I say move all in. In a tourney when your out- your out (unless it's a rebuy game). Why risk your tournament life when you don't have to. If a K comes off on the flop then push - if not play accordingly. The "long term" theory is all well and good in cash games, but in tourney's I tend to try and play more pot control poker (doesn't always work of course).

Again it's just my opinion and style so take it for what it's worth. I'm sure there are a lot of people who would push in that situation but not me
J

One might say that your Tournament Strategy - especially at the level you are talking about - is not exactly correct.

I understand pot control - it's how I play as well - but if you know that the villains range includes AX and maybe even worse - then getting all the money in preflop is THE PROPER PLAY - there is no discussion to be had. Not getting the money in is making a huge mistake.