[whataboutj]

There was some "Debate" after this hand occured. I want to see what the folks here think. To set it up it was fairly early in a $2 MTT donkament and the villan hadn't shown down much except one hand where he had TPTK and got lucky to catch the TP on the turn.

Obviouly I don't think he made the right call but let me know what you think

b]Saw Flop[/b] | Saw Turn | Saw River | Saw Showdown | Won

PokerStars Game #16805320719: Tournament #84950087, $2.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2008/04/17 - 20:37:40 (ET)
Table '84950087 121' 9-max Seat #5 is the button

MP1 - t3065
HERO - t1415
MP3 - t1210
MP4 - t1205
Button - t1610
SB - t1565
BB - t1460
UTG - t2705
UTG+1 - t2235

PREFLOP Level II (15/30)
HERO is MP2 with K Q
1 fold, UTG+1 raises t60 to t90, 1 fold, HERO calls t90, 5 folds.

FLOP t225 (2 players)
5 Q J
UTG+1 bets t120, HERO calls t120.

TURN t465 (2 players)
5 Q J 7
UTG+1 bets t150, HERO raises t300 to t450, UTG+1 raises t660 to t1110, HERO raises t95 to t1205, UTG+1 calls t95.

RIVER t3475 (2 players)
5 Q J 7 A

SHOW DOWN
UTG+1 shows A T
HERO shows K Q
UTG+1 collected t2875 from pot

Final Pot: t2875

[whataboutj]

BTW I know I should have raised the flop bet

[Big Mike]

I think you could (should) have folded to his turn push.
You only had TPGK. If he had had AQ or KK i doubt you would have posted this for comment. And also, you'd get better help if you don't show results.

[Big Mike]

Also, I think a solid case can be made for folding preflop in the second level of a tournament.

[tomb1]

The only way his Turn re-raise makes sense is if he thought you would fold. Because he did not have the odds -- he was behind about 32/68% or about a 2.1:1 dog. I think he made a bad call.

[beekeeper]

Originally Posted by tomb1

The only way his Turn re-raise makes sense is if he thought you would fold.

I agree--or, more to the point, I think he's semi-bluffing with a strong draw.

On the other hand, his turn call is a bad call so maybe he can't be given credit for semi-bluffing.

[Sneds]

In the early stage of the tournament, I think this hand is more of a bluff catcher than a value betting hand.

I would probably check/call down. I wouldn't look to get AI w/ KQ in this spot because not much calls you that you beat. (Apart from AT obv)

I think by check calling, you keep the pot small - meaning you're not hit with too much of a difficult decision on river because the pot isn't over inflated.

I can't see what good comes from raising the turn, whatever beats you gets all in, which gives you a tough decision with KQ early on and if he's bluffing you he's generally folding.

[StevenH72]

I think with KQo you could be laying pre-flop, and could certainly be laying to the 3-bet on the turn. You have built a big pot with a marginal holding which imo is a mistake here.

Also if you will get better advice if you dont show the results of the hand.

[tomb1]

Originally Posted by tomb1

The only way his Turn re-raise makes sense is if he thought you would fold. Because he did not have the odds -- he was behind about 32/68% or about a 2.1:1 dog. I think he made a bad call.

OK, I was trying to answer your question about his call. But I see other discussion is called for.

As far as your play . . . too wimpy. Or were you slow-playing (please tell me you weren't!)?

Flop -- you hit top pair with a vulnerable hand and board. End it now! Bet the pot and see what happens. He should fold, but if he makes a terrible call on a gutshot straight, at least you made the right play.

Turn -- oops, his hand got better. Calling is an option, but I think a raise is better. But not so wimpy! When you raised him, why not push here? You're willing to put all the money in about 5 seconds later, so why not earlier so he has the incentive to fold? The only reason to slowly build a pot here and trick him to put all his chips in the middle is if you have a near-nuts hand.

[Sneds]

Originally Posted by tomb1

OK, I was trying to answer your question about his call. But I see other discussion is called for.

As far as your play . . . too wimpy. Or were you slow-playing (please tell me you weren't!)?

Flop -- you hit top pair with a vulnerable hand and board. End it now! Bet the pot and see what happens. He should fold, but if he makes a terrible call on a gutshot straight, at least you made the right play.

Turn -- oops, his hand got better. Calling is an option, but I think a raise is better. But not so wimpy! When you raised him, why not push here? You're willing to put all the money in about 5 seconds later, so why not earlier so he has the incentive to fold? The only reason to slowly build a pot here and trick him to put all his chips in the middle is if you have a near-nuts hand.

I disagree with this post. It's too easy to say raise when you know the villians holding. He leads out on the flop and if you're raising pot you've got a third of your stack in the middle with KQ, who calls >500 with less than KQ? Not many people IMO