[ontheuptick]

I saw the thread about hating online poker, and so I wanted to post a question that's been on my mind...

Being a mac user, I don't have Poker Tracker or HUD yet (someone clue me in if there's something worthwhile out there that I'm missing). My question is, is online poker beatable (at low stakes, I play .10 and .25 BB levels) without those tools?

And, does anybody know an approximation of what percentage of players are using these tools?

I recently read this column by Ed Miller where he talks about the tools he uses when playing online. With all the detailed information you can have at your fingertips while making tough decisions, obviously having a HUD and PT would be a HUGE benefit.

It's not like I'm getting crushed online. After a recent tudoring session from TMJ2K, I've been treading water to a little bit ahead, and I'm just wondering if these tools could be the difference to make me a slight winner (not looking to be a pro here, I just want to be able to sustain a bankroll, and win enough to enjoy it)

Thanks for your thoughts..

[JoseRijo]

Can you sail across the Atlantic without a GPS and modern navigation system? Well of course you can. And a good player can certainly beat online poker without a HUD. Especially if you're only playing one or two tables. It's the 4-tablers (and up) that really benefit from them.

[Big Mike]

Originally Posted by JoseRijo

Especially if you're only playing one or two tables. It's the 4-tablers (and up) that really benefit from them.

Definitely correct. I mainly only 2 table anyway (3/6 lhe) and i do use PT and a HUD, but I find making good notes on a player to be just as helpful if not more so.
The HUD is very helpful, but I play on my wife's laptop and at work a lot without it and I do well there too.
The HUD doesn't make bad players good, just makes the game a bit easier, which will likely result in an increase in your bb/100. I'll tell you one thing I've been realizing lately; the most important key to being a winning player is table selection. I would rather play a good table with no HUD or stats or notes than a tough table against players with 20000 hands each in my database.

[ontheuptick]

Originally Posted by Big Mike

I'll tell you one thing I've been realizing lately; the most important key to being a winning player is table selection. I would rather play a good table with no HUD or stats or notes than a tough table against players with 20000 hands each in my database.

Great point. This is another area where I'm sure PT, Hud, and those other devices that Miller talks about, would really help.

[Poboy]

Table selection is probably the least practiced skill of online players. Heck, my table selection methods could use work.

I don't use a HUD. I have PT, but don't access it while at the table, or use it much for evaling opponents. I mostly use it for self-eval.

[JM]

Yeah I don't use them either, I find them more distracting than paying attention to the table.

[Vince]

Originally Posted by JoseRijo

Can you sail across the Atlantic without a GPS and modern navigation system? Well of course you can. And a good player can certainly beat online poker without a HUD. Especially if you're only playing one or two tables. It's the 4-tablers (and up) that really benefit from them.

Exactly.
A HUD gives you a good impression on your opponents playing style. I think it's worth gold if you know the stats of your opponents.

[Sneds]

If you can use the information provided to you then of course it's useful.

I don't think enough people effectively use the information especially at micro.

But why wouldn't you want to know that a player is 12/8 when he is opening UTG? Or that a certain player ALWAYS fires on the turn when the flop is checked round and that they have only limp reraised 2 times before preflop - and both times were with Aces?

Use the information and it gives you an insight into the players game. Use it correctly and you'll smash micro stakes without even thinking about it.

[weak]

I'm using both, and of course it helps a lot with other players.

But another big point for me is the ability to analyze your own game. Imho one of the keys to get a better player is to identify the weaknesses in your game, and PT is a very handy tool for that.

[shanghai_sparky]

I'm a mediocre low stakes player, and they help me quite a bit.
Knowing who is super aggressive helps seat position later. When I see players that I have encounered before, I look up their notes that I made using poker tracker and decide where to sit if I sit at the same table.

When I first started using it, I had it rate my play, and it came back too aggressive. At the time, I was losing money. SInce then, I have tightened up my play and my winnings have increased to where I am back on the plus side.

Sometimes the HUD can be a distraction. That has to be dealt with by the user.