Bottom set on a flop with a three-flush

BrettButter · #1 (**permalink**) 02-02-2008, 10:14 PM

First off, acceptable call? Early in a big $2 MTT, very loose table, Mass has raised six times pre-flop already, and has shown down KTo, 78o, 22, and A4 so far.

PokerStars Game #15020234554: Tournament #75901348, $2.00+$0.20 Hold'em No Limit - Level I (10/20) - 2008/02/02 - 23:06:02 (ET)
Table '75901348 173' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: opiejr97 (1440 in chips)
Seat 2: highlife15 (1460 in chips)
Seat 3: Massaka777 (2500 in chips)
Seat 4: tomwilk2 (2650 in chips)
Seat 5: ixcite (1490 in chips) is sitting out
Seat 6: NangaEboko (2140 in chips)
Seat 7: benj077 (1420 in chips)
Seat 8: BrettButter (1380 in chips)
Seat 9: Trubman (1500 in chips)
benj077: posts small blind 10
BrettButter: posts big blind 20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BrettButter [3h 3d]
Trubman: calls 20
opiejr97: folds
highlife15: folds
Massaka777: raises 60 to 80
tomwilk2: calls 80
ixcite: folds
NangaEboko: calls 80
benj077: folds
BrettButter: calls 60
Trubman: calls 60
*** FLOP *** [Qc 3c 5c]

Ok, so, I hit my set, am in first position, and there's three clubs on board. Do I lead out here or let someone else take a stab?

jojobinks · #2 (**permalink**) 02-02-2008, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettButter

Ok, so, I hit my set, am in first position, and there's three clubs on board. Do I lead out here or let someone else take a stab?

i lead and go broke if necessary.

tomb1 · #3 (**permalink**) 02-03-2008, 12:09 AM

Lead out. The board is not going to get better for you, only worse. If you die, you die.

BrettButter · #4 (**permalink**) 02-03-2008, 12:14 AM

Any suggestions from the two of you on a range for the opening bet?

xtwalker · #5 (**permalink**) 02-03-2008, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrettButter

Any suggestions from the two of you on a range for the opening bet?

I go 300...

BTW, I was planning to post about a flopped set of 3's on a 3d 6d 9h board today... interested to see the responses you get.

NoFear · #6 (**permalink**) 02-03-2008, 12:31 AM

Lead out.....they would think your are on the flush draw. I doubt someone has flop the flush. I think you have 75% chance of winning this hand.

Two card left to pair the board baby!

littlebu · #7 (**permalink**) 02-03-2008, 04:58 AM

I'd lead for 320 and plan on going broke if the opportunity arises.

Stevo · #8 (**permalink**) 02-03-2008, 08:00 AM

Why not check-raise here? I mean, if you flopped the nut flush or near nut flush, why bet? You're first to act (I think) with 4 guys behind you. Someone will bet, your raise will show tremendous strength and might push a good player off his hand (top pair or draw). If you raise and the guy just calls, you can bet out the turn (assuming no more spades) and take the lead (here is where you might push off stupid players who are betting and calling with jack), if you raise and he goes all in, I think you can fold, depending upon the player.

I guess it sort of depends. If you lead out and someone pushes all in, you have a hard decision. Do you have a table image here? I think that matters a tiny little bit depending upon the guys at the table (for example, in my game, I am known as the tightest player at the table, really at all tables - yet when I bet or even just call a bet, no one cares - it's a great game!) If you have a tight image, the check raise would show tremendous strength.

I don't think either betting out or the check raising is wrong. The only thing is it seems like these days the first bet doesn't get the respect it should anymore. The second bet (check raise) shows strength. I don't know, it's early and I haven't had my coffee.

tomb1 · #9 (**permalink**) 02-03-2008, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevo

Why not check-raise here?

Several reasons. If you check, then a made flush will probably also check. A 4-flush might also check and you'll give him a free card. I can see your reasoning, though, since one of those many players is likely to bet. But then you have to go all in on your C/R, that's the only size bet that will work, assuming the better bet 300-400.

Also, if you check, you are giving up control of the hand, and not really getting any information.

Also, you'll lose less money (if you're beat) by leading out. If you face a big re-raise by a monster hand, you can fold. But if you check, and the monster bets out, you put a lot more at risk when you C/R and he calls.

Another big reason is that there are too many players in the hand for you to get cute. Lots of uncertainties with that many players.

EasilyFound · #10 (**permalink**) 02-03-2008, 08:16 AM

Lead out with a bet of 320 or so, and push if you get raised on the flop. If the turn does not put another club the board, you push. If a club hits on the turn, you are a 4-1 underdog to hit a full house on the river and are almost certainly up against a flush if more than one opponent called your flop bet. I'd hate to fold if that happened, but I think you would have to if you're up against more than one opponent. No?