[EasilyFound]

Originally Posted by tomb1

Lead out. The board is not going to get better for you, only worse. If you die, you die.

What is your play if you lead out, get two callers, and a club hits the turn?

[tomb1]

Originally Posted by BrettButter

Any suggestions from the two of you on a range for the opening bet?

Pot it. If I read the OP correctly, I think that's 400.

You don't really want a call here, do you?

[jdunford]

Originally Posted by tomb1

Pot it. If I read the OP correctly, I think that's 400.

You don't really want a call here, do you?

I'd bet 300. You don't really want a call, but you don't want to LOOK like you don't want a call, either. Bet it like you've either made a flush or you've got the A- or K-high flush draw. You don't want to bet like you've got a set or you'll lose any callers if/when the board pairs on the turn.

I'd expect anybody with a baby flush who would fold to a bet of 400 would also fold to a bet of 300. And anybody who would chase for 300 with the Ac or Kc would also chase for 400. And if somebody has a higher set, well, that's the risk you take when you play 33 to a pre-flop raise.

[Stevo]

JD,

I wasn't really paying attention to op for what our heros position was, but you don't like calling with 33 to (was it a single?) preflop raise? What if you can close the action with your call or if you are in position?

I guess it depends on a number of of factors that I am not looking at here, but I usually will call a raise with my small pair hoping to hit just like our guy did, although not with 3 spades too.

Of course, I will fold a weak ace to a preflop raise... hmm... what's more likely - that I make a set or that I hit two pair with an ace?

This might change the way I play...

[jdunford]

Originally Posted by Stevo

JD,

I wasn't really paying attention to op for what our heros position was, but you don't like calling with 33 to (was it a single?) preflop raise? What if you can close the action with your call or if you are in position?

I guess it depends on a number of of factors that I am not looking at here, but I usually will call a raise with my small pair hoping to hit just like our guy did, although not with 3 spades too.

Of course, I will fold a weak ace to a preflop raise... hmm... what's more likely - that I make a set or that I hit two pair with an ace?

This might change the way I play...

I didn't say I wouldn't play 33 to a pre-flop raise. I just double-checked the action, and he was BB with 33. Definitely not folding it. I just meant that, if you lose to set-over-set, so be it. That's one of the hands that could beat us here, but we can't do anything about that. If I'm UTG with 33, I tend to fold it because I'm likely to get into trouble when I limp from that position. Most flops are going to miss me (7.5:1 against, right?). The BB is exactly where I want to get small pairs, so I see nothing wrong with Brett's play so far.

As for the betting, we don't want to announce to the whole world that "we want everyone to fold because we don't have the flush". We want to make it look more like a value bet, but a one big enough that will get rid of the weaker draws and maybe even some weak made hands that are beating us.

[tomb1]

Man, as first to act with 4 more players to follow, I don't want to bet anything less than the pot. If I bet 300 and get 1 caller, the most I want to call, then the other guys are getting increasingly better odds around the table and we'll see more calls. I don't worry about what it looks like or trying to out-think the other guys. We just want everyone to fold here.

[jojobinks]

Originally Posted by tomb1

Man, as first to act with 4 more players to follow, I don't want to bet anything less than the pot. If I bet 300 and get 1 caller, the most I want to call, then the other guys are getting increasingly better odds around the table and we'll see more calls. I don't worry about what it looks like or trying to out-think the other guys. We just want everyone to fold here.

yeah, tom, but you'd bet the pot here with TPTK too. you value bet for more than most people, so it makes sense for you. most of us make bets of 2/3-3/4 the pot. betting more than usual here reeks of desperation, i guess. if i had flopped the nuts here i wouldn't bet that much, so it's probably not a good idea to bet a lot now.