[gmunny]

Originally Posted by dad604

Personally, I have ran acoss it couple of times but they so stupid, I enjoyed playing with them. They end up losing. They so stupid that they use the chat box to collude but had it turn off to see the other players' chat. They thought it turn off the chat so that others can see their chat but it works the opposite way. So the rest of the tables knew the colluder's hole card.

That's pretty damn funny!

[hod]

Originally Posted by dad604

Personally, I have ran acoss it couple of times but they so stupid, I enjoyed playing with them. They end up losing. They so stupid that they use the chat box to collude but had it turn off to see the other players' chat. They thought it turn off the chat so that others can see their chat but it works the opposite way. So the rest of the tables knew the colluder's hole card.

Genious!

I've been up against it when 2 players use non-English in the chat, but are clearly talking about the game, which sucked. I guess it would be almost always be obvious. Occasionally me and a buddy will play cash games together online at the same table, when we can't get a live game going, and give each other stick - so nothing to stop others going to the same table and phoning each other - but like has been mentioned, you need more than hole card info to make your $$ cheating I would have thought.

[whataboutj]

Originally Posted by hod

I've been up against it when 2 players use non-English in the chat, but are clearly talking about the game, which sucked.

I've had to report this type of collusion before - it was soooo obvious the two chatting in non-english were coluding - they were from the same city and continually would chat not in english and one of them would then fold their hand right after - BRILLIANT

[Hokemon]

Originally Posted by dad604

Personally, I have ran acoss it couple of times but they so stupid, I enjoyed playing with them. They end up losing. They so stupid that they use the chat box to collude but had it turn off to see the other players' chat. They thought it turn off the chat so that others can see their chat but it works the opposite way. So the rest of the tables knew the colluder's hole card.

Poker Darwin Award Winners!!

[jamby]

I disagree. All folks would have to do is get on the phone with one another and collude privately to their heart's content. Much more than hole card info could be shared too, such as post-flop intent to fold, betting amounts, etc. Pretty hard to do that in a card room or home game in front of your fellow players nearly as easily as you could online.

Originally Posted by ipgyst

If it makes you feel any better, it is probably easier for people to collude in a live game (home more likely than casino) than in an online game.

[Poboy]

Originally Posted by jamby

I disagree. All folks would have to do is get on the phone with one another and collude privately to their heart's content. Much more than hole card info could be shared too, such as post-flop intent to fold, betting amounts, etc. Pretty hard to do that in a card room or home game in front of your fellow players nearly as easily as you could online.

Yeah but you can't touch the deck online.

There is cheating when there is gambling. Online cheating takes its forms and live cheating takes its forms. One thing you can be sure of is that people will cheat. It's easier to pick up the phone/IM somebody online, but it's also easier to catch, and costs the offenders more when the site takes their cash away from several cheating sessions.

It is pretty easy to cheat live. Code words, signals, marking cards, dealing scams, et al. It is pretty easy to cheat online.

[Jonah 99]

JJProdigy was banned for playing multiple accounts.
He's on record as having at least two seats at a final table.

He used four to five laptops (for different MAC's) and cell phone wireless cards for unique IP's

I think online poker is most likely a haven for collusion, plus you could be playing bots, or worse players who know what cards you have and what the turn and river will be. One of the sites a few years ago had a pretty bad randomizer and once you entered in your seat position, your cards, and the flop, there was a program that would tell you what everyone had and what the turn and river would be.

[cleverpiggy77]

Yes it is possible and yes it happens. I know of "pros" that do it.

[w16227]

Originally Posted by Jonah 99

JJProdigy was banned for playing multiple accounts.
He's on record as having at least two seats at a final table.

He used four to five laptops (for different MAC's) and cell phone wireless cards for unique IP's

I think online poker is most likely a haven for collusion, plus you could be playing bots, or worse players who know what cards you have and what the turn and river will be. One of the sites a few years ago had a pretty bad randomizer and once you entered in your seat position, your cards, and the flop, there was a program that would tell you what everyone had and what the turn and river would be.

You are thinking of Poker Planet. First to offer online cash games, first to have a security problem. The program that you are referring to was never available to the public, a private security company found the hole and wrote the program. They alone had the ability to "see" the cards. They informed the site of the issue and (in all likelihood) earned some serious coin to fix it.

The only other confirmed occurrence of the hole cards being "visible" was the recent Absolute Poker fiasco. Basically, they had superuser accounts that were in use during debug of their software. These accounts were able to see everybody's cards so that they could test the code. The accounts were never removed and one of their employees used this account to "help" a friend.

Before we all grab the tinfoil hats - it is almost impossible on most sites for online playes to "see" your cards (AP issues aside). Pokerstars only sends you the data on your own hole cards. No amount of encryption or hacking can allow for anyone but you to see the cards that you are dealt based on the standard data feed. Any hack would involve either compromising the site servers (unlikely) or remote install of software on your PC sending them the information through the net. I say most sites. I have read (and heard on pokerroad radio and the like) about the pokerstars and fultilt data xfers. Others may vary (AP).

Also, there has been some online/casino debate. I would say that for an ongoing operation, it would be far easier to collude in a live game situation. The online sites can (and most do) track players and play and see if any patterns emerge. Low limit colluders are not all that bright (see Dad's post) and usually do not cover their tracks very well.

What should be of concern is how the site (or live location) handles these situations. AP was presented with statistical proof that something was funny and held to their public stance that nothing was wrong. The player in question had some way over the top % of hand played - and crushed the field in big blinds/hand made during the tournament. Someone made a plot of this and it was amazing. Big old cloud plot of all the people in the tournament and one dot WAY WAY WAY outside of the entire field. Now, if AP had looked over the preliminary data (or been actively analyzing their HH databases to look for this), and released a statement that the matter is being investigated, great. However, no matter what was being done internally, they did not want anyone to know externally and posted fluff publicly. This was a huge PR blunder. I would expect better from a site if I was going to play there. Same thing applies to live games. Do you know the host all that well? Does the casino make every effort to prevent this?

In the end - play where you feel safe and be as informed as you can.

[hod]

w16227 - great, informative post. I'm sure I'd read parts of it before, but none of it was very clear in my head till now.